Marshall JMP 2204 - A/B Cascaded/Non-Cascaded Pre

[adam79]

I went to a local music shop in my area, and they had a cascaded JMP 2204.
The difference was night and day between my non-cascaded amp and the
cascaded one. I was able to play on the rhythm pickup on my LP without the
overwhelming bass I get on my JMP. It sounded perfect. Now that I've been
able to A/B a non-cascaded to a cascaded version, I know the JMP is the amp
for me. I talked to my tech, and he told me that if he gain stages my amp he
won't have to make any changes, so if I don't like it, it can be converted
back to stock without any sign of the modification.
Are the non-cascaded versions known to be bass heavy? If not, what could be
causing the problem? Could it be the tubes, dirty filters, something else?
Should I take a chance on getting the gain stage mod and the amp tuned up,
hoping that it will end up sounding like the cascaded version I played
today.. or should I sell my amp for a loss and buy the one I tried out and
really liked?
Oh yeah, it's defenitely not the cabinet/speakers causing the problem, cuz
my other two amps sound fine through it.

Thanks again,
-Adam

[Peter Alerich]

Post by adam79
Should I take a chance on getting the gain stage mod and the amp tuned up,
hoping that it will end up sounding like the cascaded version I played
today.. or should I sell my amp for a loss and buy the one I tried out and
really liked?

If it were me I would probably buy the amp that I know I liked and
sell the one I did not. After the mod your amp may sound better than
the one you played or it may not even sound as good to you. I've never
heard an early JMP master volume much less one that has been modded so
I cannot say from experience.

Of course, the plus side of having the mod done is that he can tweak
the mod (if he knows what he's doing) to voice the preamp the way you
would like it. More gain. More high end. Deeper lows. You can play it
during the mod and work with him to fine tune it the way you want it.

Even though he can put it back to stock you're gonna pay for the mod
then pay to have it restored if you don't like it. You could end up
having a lot wrapped up in this amp without ever having really liked
the tone. But why do you have to sell it for a loss? What did you pay
for it in the first place?

I say buy the one that you dig.
Peter

[Peter Alerich]

Post by adam79
Should I take a chance on getting the gain stage mod and the amp tuned up,
hoping that it will end up sounding like the cascaded version I played
today.. or should I sell my amp for a loss and buy the one I tried out and
really liked?

Another thing to consider, Adam... looking at the schematic for your
amp there are a number of way to cascade the two channels together
that won't result in the exact circuit of the later JMP. I'm not sure
what he has in mind. If he plans to replicate the later JMP circuit,
fine. If he's just gonna feed one tube into the next it might miss the
mark.

Peter

[Jim]

Post by adam79
I went to a local music shop in my area, and they had a cascaded JMP 2204.
The difference was night and day between my non-cascaded amp and the
cascaded one. I was able to play on the rhythm pickup on my LP without the
overwhelming bass I get on my JMP. It sounded perfect. Now that I've been
able to A/B a non-cascaded to a cascaded version, I know the JMP is the amp
for me. I talked to my tech, and he told me that if he gain stages my amp he
won't have to make any changes, so if I don't like it, it can be converted
back to stock without any sign of the modification.

Have you had anybody measure the voltage on your output tubes? The
cascaded version is designed for under 400V. If you do not have the
same power transformer as the cascaded version, it still will NOT sound
the same after the mod. Same goes for output transformer.

Be aware that it looks like Marshall changed spec on the same part
number some time in the JCM800 series when the voltage went back up to
450+. So simply looking at a part number is useless. It needs to be
measured.

Post by adam79
Are the non-cascaded versions known to be bass heavy?

I've never had the opportunity to play one (to my memory).

Post by adam79
If not, what could be
causing the problem? Could it be the tubes, dirty filters, something else?

Old tubes can lose high frequencies. But gaining bass? Not sure. A
different output transformer could explain some differences.

Post by adam79
Should I take a chance on getting the gain stage mod and the amp tuned up,
hoping that it will end up sounding like the cascaded version I played
today.. or should I sell my amp for a loss and buy the one I tried out and
really liked?

What did you pay for it? If you don't have to sell it yesterday, market
it as a RARE early 2204. It's the truth. If you can afford to buy the
new one before selling the old one, that's what I would do, and I'd hold
out until you get the right price. Your amp truly is a rare one.

Post by adam79
Oh yeah, it's defenitely not the cabinet/speakers causing the problem, cuz
my other two amps sound fine through it.
Thanks again,
-Adam

[adam79]

What did you pay for it? If you dn't have to sell it yesterday, market it
as a RARE early 2204. It's the truth. If you can afford to buy the new
one before selling the old one, that's what I would do, and I'd hold out
until you get the right price. Your amp truly is a rare one.

I paid $1600.. ::kicking myself in the teeth:: I got ripped off. If you
remember the story, the guy told me it was cascaded, and lied about the
sound dropping with that cable test. I didn't do enough research before I
bought the amp. How much do you think my amp is worth? I have it up on ebay
for $1250 or best offer, and the best offer I've gotten is $900. This is the
third time I've listed the amp on ebay. The first time I had it at $1600,
the second $1400, and now this time $1250, all "buy it now auctions." I can
affoard to buy the one I like, it's selling for $1299.99. On top and on
bottom of the power and standby switch there is a "1" printed on the top of
the power and standby switch, and a "0" on the bottom of each switch; I've
never seen that before. I'm not sure what I should do. My tech charges $70
an hour. for that price I could get the voltage rating on the output tubes
and mains transformer, and also have the amp checked out to see if anything
needs to be replaced (i.e. tubes, filters..). Think I should do that with
the amp?

Thanks,
-Adam

[Peter Alerich]

Post by adam79
I paid $1600.

Yikes. It ain't that rare.

For an extra C note you could have one of these shipped to your door:

http://www.joepopp.net/rachelleamps.htm

Peter

[adam79]

thanks for rubbing it in :)

Post by Peter Alerich

Post by adam79
I paid $1600.

Yikes. It ain't that rare.
http://www.joepopp.net/rachelleamps.htm
Peter

[Peter Alerich]

Post by adam79
thanks for rubbing it in :)

Anytime. :)

Go buy that amp you know you like before someone else does.
Worry about moving the other one afterwards or keep it for a spare.

Peter

[Jim]

Post by Peter Alerich

Post by adam79
I paid $1600.

Yikes. It ain't that rare.
http://www.joepopp.net/rachelleamps.htm
Peter

Personally, I wouldn't touch it. It uses Plexi type transformers. I'd
expect too much headroom and a different sounding distortion.

There area plenty of good PROPER cascaded JMP 2204's out there at or
below this price.

[RichL]

Post by Peter Alerich

Post by adam79
I paid $1600.

Yikes. It ain't that rare.
http://www.joepopp.net/rachelleamps.htm
Peter

Gave the clips on the site a listen. Not impressed. I guess it's a
matter of taste. Maybe it would have helped if he used different
guitars. The one he used has a single pickup, booo-ring!

[Jim]

Post by RichL

Post by Peter Alerich

Post by adam79
I paid $1600.

Yikes. It ain't that rare.
http://www.joepopp.net/rachelleamps.htm
Peter

Gave the clips on the site a listen. Not impressed. I guess it's a
matter of taste. Maybe it would have helped if he used different
guitars. The one he used has a single pickup, booo-ring!

Kind of thin in areas, isn't it. Buzzier than mine. But like I said
you can't really A/B a live amp against clips of the net. I can usually
get a better tone to MY ears on any gear that I can get my fingers on,
compared to clips.

[Peter Alerich]

Post by RichL
Gave the clips on the site a listen. Not impressed.

Yano the thing I liked the least about most of the clips I heard on
his site and lots of guitar clips I hear in general? Can't these
people tune a freaking guitar already?

Double yoi already.

Peter

[RichL]

Post by Peter Alerich

Post by RichL
Gave the clips on the site a listen. Not impressed.

Yano the thing I liked the least about most of the clips I heard on
his site and lots of guitar clips I hear in general? Can't these
people tune a freaking guitar already?
Double yoi already.
Peter

Amen! You'd think the guy would be a bit more careful about that if he
wanted to leave a good impression.

[Jim]

Post by Peter Alerich

Post by adam79
I paid $1600.

Yikes. It ain't that rare.
http://www.joepopp.net/rachelleamps.htm
Peter

...and I see by the faceplate that it's a JCM 800 type anyway. As an
aside, I'm not sure if Marshall has an interest in enforcing any rights
in that being put on the faceplate, along with general trade dress issues.

Tone is different than mine, but quite good. Some if could be the
KT-77's AND the higher voltages AND the "Scumback" speakers (which I'm
interested in). I still like mine, though. His might have more
reactive tone controls, though (or it could be that I rarely move mine).
But much of it (like the bright crunch) I don't really care for anyway.

But you can't A/B a live amp against clips off the internet anyway.

The link did refresh my memory on the speakers that I was asking about a
few weeks ago, so I'm happy about that one.

[Jim]

Post by adam79

What did you pay for it? If you dn't have to sell it yesterday, market it
as a RARE early 2204. It's the truth. If you can afford to buy the new
one before selling the old one, that's what I would do, and I'd hold out
until you get the right price. Your amp truly is a rare one.

I paid $1600..

It may be tough recouping that amount, but not impossible.


::kicking myself in the teeth:: I got ripped off. If you

Post by adam79
remember the story, the guy told me it was cascaded, and lied about the
sound dropping with that cable test.

Was it a business? If so, I'd do some major complaining about
misreprentation and demand a refund. How long ago, though?


I didn't do enough research before I

Post by adam79
bought the amp. How much do you think my amp is worth? I have it up on ebay
for $1250 or best offer, and the best offer I've gotten is $900.

$900 isn't enough. $1600 was TOO MUCH.

This is the

Post by adam79
third time I've listed the amp on ebay. The first time I had it at $1600,
the second $1400, and now this time $1250, all "buy it now auctions." I can
affoard to buy the one I like, it's selling for $1299.99. On top and on
bottom of the power and standby switch there is a "1" printed on the top of
the power and standby switch, and a "0" on the bottom of each switch; I've
never seen that before. I'm not sure what I should do. My tech charges $70
an hour. for that price I could get the voltage rating on the output tubes
and mains transformer, and also have the amp checked out to see if anything
needs to be replaced (i.e. tubes, filters..). Think I should do that with
the amp?
Thanks,
-Adam

It's up to you. I'd buy the right one, and plan to wait until the right
buyer finds your early version.

[J.P.]

Post by adam79

What did you pay for it? If you dn't have to sell it yesterday, market it
as a RARE early 2204. It's the truth. If you can afford to buy the new
one before selling the old one, that's what I would do, and I'd hold out
until you get the right price. Your amp truly is a rare one.

I paid $1600.. ::kicking myself in the teeth:: I got ripped off. If you
remember the story, the guy told me it was cascaded, and lied about the
sound dropping with that cable test. I didn't do enough research before I
bought the amp. How much do you think my amp is worth? I have it up on ebay
for $1250 or best offer, and the best offer I've gotten is $900. This is the
third time I've listed the amp on ebay. The first time I had it at $1600,
the second $1400, and now this time $1250, all "buy it now auctions." I can
affoard to buy the one I like, it's selling for $1299.99. On top and on
bottom of the power and standby switch there is a "1" printed on the top of
the power and standby switch, and a "0" on the bottom of each switch; I've
never seen that before. I'm not sure what I should do. My tech charges $70
an hour. for that price I could get the voltage rating on the output tubes
and mains transformer, and also have the amp checked out to see if anything
needs to be replaced (i.e. tubes, filters..). Think I should do that with
the amp?
Thanks,
-Adam

Since you already own it, why not just fix it?