Powered Mixer advice?

[Einstine]

Ok, I have 2 Peavey SP2-Ti speakers. Info on back:
Max (program) 600 watts
300 watts RMS (49v RMS)
8 ohms

I have been running them with a Peavey XR 600 C. This is a mono head.
Watts
210-4ohms
300-2ohms

I am testing a Peavey XR 684 F. This is a stereo head rated at 400 watts (200 per channel)
Watts
210-4 ohms
120-8ohms

Given that I do not understand watts, ohms etc., I am going to ask some questions.

First, does even the XR 600 C have enough power to push them properly?

Is a stereo head running at 200 watts per channel any louder than a mono head running at 200 watts?

I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each. If I use 2 with the 600 C that makes them 4 ohms so I guess
I get 210 watts. But if I hook up my other 2 that would be 2 ohms and 300 watts. How come it does
not sound any louder?

Is the 684 F enough to push these speakers properly? I am going for the stereo, 2 extra channels and,
onboard effects. It really seems to be a bit quieter than the 600 C.

If I hook up 1 SP2 to each side of the 684F in stereo mode, I guess I am getting only 120 watts.
Is that correct?

Would I get more volume running it in mono and using all 4 of my speakers for a load of 2 ohms?

Am I totally confusing watts with volume?


Thanks.

[Einstine]

And a followup question:

Would the 2 SP2 speakers I have be better matched with the Peavey XR 696F which is
stereo- 2x 600 watts?

Post by Einstine
Max (program) 600 watts
300 watts RMS (49v RMS)
8 ohms
I have been running them with a Peavey XR 600 C. This is a mono head.
Watts
210-4ohms
300-2ohms
I am testing a Peavey XR 684 F. This is a stereo head rated at 400 watts (200 per channel)
Watts
210-4 ohms
120-8ohms
Given that I do not understand watts, ohms etc., I am going to ask some questions.
First, does even the XR 600 C have enough power to push them properly?
Is a stereo head running at 200 watts per channel any louder than a mono head running at 200 watts?
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each. If I use 2 with the 600 C that makes them 4 ohms so I guess
I get 210 watts. But if I hook up my other 2 that would be 2 ohms and 300 watts. How come it does
not sound any louder?
Is the 684 F enough to push these speakers properly? I am going for the stereo, 2 extra channels and,
onboard effects. It really seems to be a bit quieter than the 600 C.
If I hook up 1 SP2 to each side of the 684F in stereo mode, I guess I am getting only 120 watts.
Is that correct?
Would I get more volume running it in mono and using all 4 of my speakers for a load of 2 ohms?
Am I totally confusing watts with volume?
Thanks.

[John King]

Post by Einstine
Would the 2 SP2 speakers I have be better matched with the Peavey XR 696F which is
stereo- 2x 600 watts?

Post by Einstine
Max (program) 600 watts
300 watts RMS (49v RMS)
8 ohms
I have been running them with a Peavey XR 600 C. This is a mono head.
Watts
210-4ohms
300-2ohms
I am testing a Peavey XR 684 F. This is a stereo head rated at 400 watts (200 per channel)
Watts
210-4 ohms
120-8ohms
Given that I do not understand watts, ohms etc., I am going to ask some questions.
First, does even the XR 600 C have enough power to push them properly?
Is a stereo head running at 200 watts per channel any louder than a mono head running at 200 watts?
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each. If I use 2 with the 600 C that makes them 4 ohms so I guess
I get 210 watts. But if I hook up my other 2 that would be 2 ohms and 300 watts. How come it does
not sound any louder?
Is the 684 F enough to push these speakers properly? I am going for the stereo, 2 extra channels and,
onboard effects. It really seems to be a bit quieter than the 600 C.
If I hook up 1 SP2 to each side of the 684F in stereo mode, I guess I am getting only 120 watts.
Is that correct?
Would I get more volume running it in mono and using all 4 of my speakers for a load of 2 ohms?
Am I totally confusing watts with volume?
Thanks.

Too much power amp is really less of a problem than too little!
Here's why:

The 600 watt amps are less likely to reach their peak and 'clip'
the signal into a square wave (that more easily damaged speakers)
as opposed to a sine waves (wave shaped signal pulses). So.....
Theory is: At any given SPL, an amp capable of more watts is less
likely to damage your speakers. Note, however, that the 600 watts
is *defiantly* enough to hear the difference over the 210 @ 4 ohm
of the XR-600. It also might be enough to toast your SP 2's if
you crank it *to* high!

I've had several of the old XR-600 heads, and we didn't usually
bother with a separate monitor amp. We used the back line (our
amps) to carry the instruments, and the PA only did vocals and a
bit of drums.

I've also run an old Peavey XR-800 (stereo: 120 watts per side)
and we used one side for mains, the other for monitor. Seldom
miking instruments.

Both systems were adequate for small 150-300 seat clubs. If
you intend to mike all the instruments up, and play 300-1500
seats, you certainly need the 2 by 600 watts (minimum). That
size system can also minimally get a band through a *small*
outdoor gig (company picnic etc...).

HTH,
John King
"The income tax has made more liars out of the American people
than golf has." - Will Rogers

[Einstine]

Post by John King
Too much power amp is really less of a problem than too little!
The 600 watt amps are less likely to reach their peak and 'clip'
the signal into a square wave (that more easily damaged speakers)
as opposed to a sine waves (wave shaped signal pulses). So.....
Theory is: At any given SPL, an amp capable of more watts is less
likely to damage your speakers. Note, however, that the 600 watts
of the XR-600. It also might be enough to toast your SP 2's if
you crank it *to* high!
I've had several of the old XR-600 heads, and we didn't usually
bother with a separate monitor amp. We used the back line (our
amps) to carry the instruments, and the PA only did vocals and a
bit of drums.
I've also run an old Peavey XR-800 (stereo: 120 watts per side)
and we used one side for mains, the other for monitor. Seldom
miking instruments.
Both systems were adequate for small 150-300 seat clubs. If
you intend to mike all the instruments up, and play 300-1500
seats, you certainly need the 2 by 600 watts (minimum). That
size system can also minimally get a band through a *small*
outdoor gig (company picnic etc...).

Great sig. Thanks again John. I am considering the XR 696F because
my daughter is really getting into her drums again and they are a Roland
V-drum kit so I thought the extra headroom would carry them better
along with vox. Not that it will happen a bunch but if I am dropping cash
I want to get the head with the most versatility.

I also am considering it because of what you mentioned about outdoors.
It really sucks sound away. I just think the XR 696F would be a better
match for my setup. The XR 684F just seems a tad underpowered, even
compared to my XR 600C.

Thanks again.

[John King]

Post by Einstine
Max (program) 600 watts
300 watts RMS (49v RMS)
8 ohms
I have been running them with a Peavey XR 600 C. This is a mono head.
Watts
210-4ohms
300-2ohms
I am testing a Peavey XR 684 F. This is a stereo head rated at 400 watts (200 per channel)
Watts
210-4 ohms
120-8ohms
Given that I do not understand watts, ohms etc., I am going to ask some questions.
First, does even the XR 600 C have enough power to push them properly?

Yes, it's just about right..

Post by Einstine
Is a stereo head running at 200 watts per channel any louder than a mono head running at 200 watts?

Not of any significance.

Post by Einstine
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each.

Wait a minute, I though you had: "2 Peavey SP2-Ti speakers."
Now you've got four??? WTF?

Post by Einstine
If I use 2 with the 600 C that makes them 4 ohms so I guess
I get 210 watts.

Yes.

Post by Einstine
But if I hook up my other 2 that would be 2 ohms and 300 watts. How come it does not sound any louder?

Because you're not standing back far enough ;-)
NO really, the problem is that you're not adding
enough watts to notice the difference. It works like this:

To make "noticeable" change in volume requires raising the
SPL (Sound Pressure Level) by 3db (Decibels). That
requires a raise in power factor (watts) of 2x . So in your
example, to hear a "noticeable" increase in volume would
require 420 watts (2 x 210). To make a system twice as
loud requires a factor of 10x, so 210 x 10 = 2100 watts.

However, there is some benefit to using the 4 speakers instead
of just two. They don't have to work as hard, and if splayed,
you get wider dispersion (side of stage etc...)

Post by Einstine
Is the 684 F enough to push these speakers properly?

A pair (2) *maybe*... 4 definitely not.

Post by Einstine
I am going for the stereo, 2 extra channels and,
onboard effects. It really seems to be a bit quieter than the 600 C.

Stereo is useless in most PA applications. The reason a lot of those heads
are made with stereo (dual mono) amps, is so that you have one amp for
the mains, and one for the monitors.

Post by Einstine
If I hook up 1 SP2 to each side of the 684F in stereo mode, I guess I am getting only 120 watts.
Is that correct?

Correct.

Post by Einstine
Would I get more volume running it in mono and using all 4 of my speakers for a load of 2 ohms?

Not significantly.

Post by Einstine
Am I totally confusing watts with volume?

Just the amount of watts it takes to make a difference.
Remember: Noticeably louder requires twice the watts.
Twice as loud requires 10 times the watts.

HTH,

John King
"If stupidity got us in to this mess, how come it can't get us out?"
- Will Rogers

Post by Einstine
Thanks.

NP

[Einstine]

Post by John King

Post by Einstine
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each.

Wait a minute, I though you had: "2 Peavey SP2-Ti speakers."
Now you've got four??? WTF?

Excellent reply and thanks.

The other 2 speakers are Peavey 115H's at 8 ohms. I usually series them off the
SP2's and put them on the floor with the horn on the floor. The horn is much
less pretty than the SP2's. The SP2's go on stands.

Final BIG question. Would the Peavey 696F be better suited for the SP2 speakers
I own? Its stats are:

Stereo head rated at 1200 watts (600 per channel)
600 watts program at 4 ohms
475 watts program at 8 ohms

[Don Evans]

Post by Einstine

Post by John King

Post by Einstine
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each.

Wait a minute, I though you had: "2 Peavey SP2-Ti speakers."
Now you've got four??? WTF?

Excellent reply and thanks.
The other 2 speakers are Peavey 115H's at 8 ohms. I usually series them off the
SP2's and put them on the floor with the horn on the floor. The horn is much
less pretty than the SP2's. The SP2's go on stands.
Final BIG question. Would the Peavey 696F be better suited for the SP2 speakers
Stereo head rated at 1200 watts (600 per channel)
600 watts program at 4 ohms
475 watts program at 8 ohms

I'll throw my $.02 here. As John said, more power is almost always better
than less. The clipping of a low power amp can blow your tweeters, and
also, the higher power translates to more amplifier control over your
speakers ... more punch, less risk.

That said, if you let your 600w mixer feedback uncontrollably, you do run a
greater risk of blowing something. But on the plus side, you will have more
volume possible before feedback, because you will have less compression in
the system due to the higher headroom.

Don

[Einstine]

Post by Don Evans

Post by Einstine

Post by John King

Post by Einstine
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each.

Wait a minute, I though you had: "2 Peavey SP2-Ti speakers."
Now you've got four??? WTF?

Excellent reply and thanks.
The other 2 speakers are Peavey 115H's at 8 ohms. I usually series them off the
SP2's and put them on the floor with the horn on the floor. The horn is much
less pretty than the SP2's. The SP2's go on stands.
Final BIG question. Would the Peavey 696F be better suited for the SP2 speakers
Stereo head rated at 1200 watts (600 per channel)
600 watts program at 4 ohms
475 watts program at 8 ohms

I'll throw my $.02 here. As John said, more power is almost always better
than less. The clipping of a low power amp can blow your tweeters, and
also, the higher power translates to more amplifier control over your
speakers ... more punch, less risk.
That said, if you let your 600w mixer feedback uncontrollably, you do run a
greater risk of blowing something. But on the plus side, you will have more
volume possible before feedback, because you will have less compression in
the system due to the higher headroom.
Don

Thanks Don. Good info on the watts vs. feedback. I would not have guessed I
could get more volume before feedback. I always assumed it was a balance of
poor speaker angles to mic's and eq.

[Don Evans]

Post by Einstine

Post by Don Evans

Post by Einstine

Post by John King

Post by Einstine
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each.

Wait a minute, I though you had: "2 Peavey SP2-Ti speakers."
Now you've got four??? WTF?

Excellent reply and thanks.
The other 2 speakers are Peavey 115H's at 8 ohms. I usually series
them
off the
SP2's and put them on the floor with the horn on the floor. The horn
is
much
less pretty than the SP2's. The SP2's go on stands.
Final BIG question. Would the Peavey 696F be better suited for the SP2 speakers
Stereo head rated at 1200 watts (600 per channel)
600 watts program at 4 ohms
475 watts program at 8 ohms

I'll throw my $.02 here. As John said, more power is almost always better
than less. The clipping of a low power amp can blow your tweeters, and
also, the higher power translates to more amplifier control over your
speakers ... more punch, less risk.
That said, if you let your 600w mixer feedback uncontrollably, you do run a
greater risk of blowing something. But on the plus side, you will have more
volume possible before feedback, because you will have less compression in
the system due to the higher headroom.
Don

Thanks Don. Good info on the watts vs. feedback. I would not have guessed I
could get more volume before feedback. I always assumed it was a balance of
poor speaker angles to mic's and eq.

That too! But headroom helps. Once you pass the threshold of feedback, any
system will do it, but an underpowered system will be more of a problem.

[John King]

Post by Einstine

Post by John King

Post by Einstine
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each.

Wait a minute, I though you had: "2 Peavey SP2-Ti speakers."
Now you've got four??? WTF?

Excellent reply and thanks.
The other 2 speakers are Peavey 115H's at 8 ohms. I usually series them off the
SP2's and put them on the floor with the horn on the floor. The horn is much
less pretty than the SP2's. The SP2's go on stands.
Final BIG question. Would the Peavey 696F be better suited for the SP2 speakers
Stereo head rated at 1200 watts (600 per channel)
600 watts program at 4 ohms
475 watts program at 8 ohms

Yeah, I know there's about $250 difference between the
two heads, but it's the cheapest way to make a noticeable
volume (and headroom) improvement.

John

[Einstine]

Post by John King

Post by Einstine

Post by John King

Post by Einstine
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each.

Wait a minute, I though you had: "2 Peavey SP2-Ti speakers."
Now you've got four??? WTF?

Excellent reply and thanks.
The other 2 speakers are Peavey 115H's at 8 ohms. I usually series them off the
SP2's and put them on the floor with the horn on the floor. The horn is much
less pretty than the SP2's. The SP2's go on stands.
Final BIG question. Would the Peavey 696F be better suited for the SP2 speakers
Stereo head rated at 1200 watts (600 per channel)
600 watts program at 4 ohms
475 watts program at 8 ohms

Yeah, I know there's about $250 difference between the
two heads, but it's the cheapest way to make a noticeable
volume (and headroom) improvement.
John

Thanks again. Sometimes newsgroups are great!

[Sasquatch]

Peavey SP-2's are awesome speakers especially for the money. They have been
around a long time which is a testament to their quality.
The 200 watt amp will drive them but will break up or distort much earlier
than the 600 watt amp will. Some of the guys in here with more technical
experience will no doubt be able to explain why but we used to use a Peavey
400 watt amp, 200 per side and noticed a huge improvement in sound quality
when we moved to a QSC 1200, 600 per side. Almost the exact same scenario.
We then used the 400 watt amp to drive the monitors, which it did well.

Sasquatch

Post by Einstine
Max (program) 600 watts
300 watts RMS (49v RMS)
8 ohms
I have been running them with a Peavey XR 600 C. This is a mono head.
Watts
210-4ohms
300-2ohms
I am testing a Peavey XR 684 F. This is a stereo head rated at 400 watts (200 per channel)
Watts
210-4 ohms
120-8ohms
Given that I do not understand watts, ohms etc., I am going to ask some questions.
First, does even the XR 600 C have enough power to push them properly?
Is a stereo head running at 200 watts per channel any louder than a mono
head running at 200 watts?
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each. If I use 2 with the 600 C that
makes them 4 ohms so I guess
I get 210 watts. But if I hook up my other 2 that would be 2 ohms and 300
watts. How come it does
not sound any louder?
Is the 684 F enough to push these speakers properly? I am going for the
stereo, 2 extra channels and,
onboard effects. It really seems to be a bit quieter than the 600 C.
If I hook up 1 SP2 to each side of the 684F in stereo mode, I guess I am
getting only 120 watts.
Is that correct?
Would I get more volume running it in mono and using all 4 of my speakers
for a load of 2 ohms?
Am I totally confusing watts with volume?
Thanks.

[Einstine]

Another great reply. I am leaning strongly toward getting the XR 696F at
600 per side.

Thanks.

Post by Sasquatch
Peavey SP-2's are awesome speakers especially for the money. They have been
around a long time which is a testament to their quality.
The 200 watt amp will drive them but will break up or distort much earlier
than the 600 watt amp will. Some of the guys in here with more technical
experience will no doubt be able to explain why but we used to use a Peavey
400 watt amp, 200 per side and noticed a huge improvement in sound quality
when we moved to a QSC 1200, 600 per side. Almost the exact same scenario.
We then used the 400 watt amp to drive the monitors, which it did well.
Sasquatch

Post by Einstine
Max (program) 600 watts
300 watts RMS (49v RMS)
8 ohms
I have been running them with a Peavey XR 600 C. This is a mono head.
Watts
210-4ohms
300-2ohms
I am testing a Peavey XR 684 F. This is a stereo head rated at 400 watts
(200 per channel)
Watts
210-4 ohms
120-8ohms
Given that I do not understand watts, ohms etc., I am going to ask some questions.
First, does even the XR 600 C have enough power to push them properly?
Is a stereo head running at 200 watts per channel any louder than a mono
head running at 200 watts?
I have 4 speakers rated at 8 ohms each. If I use 2 with the 600 C that
makes them 4 ohms so I guess
I get 210 watts. But if I hook up my other 2 that would be 2 ohms and 300
watts. How come it does
not sound any louder?
Is the 684 F enough to push these speakers properly? I am going for the
stereo, 2 extra channels and,
onboard effects. It really seems to be a bit quieter than the 600 C.
If I hook up 1 SP2 to each side of the 684F in stereo mode, I guess I am
getting only 120 watts.
Is that correct?
Would I get more volume running it in mono and using all 4 of my speakers
for a load of 2 ohms?
Am I totally confusing watts with volume?
Thanks.