which preamp? solid state and tube?

[edfardos]

Hi all,

Over the past few years, I've stopped using my trusty Fender Stage
solid state amp, and started using a Marshall DSL combo, along with
a Fender Deluxe (HRD). I'm more than happy with the hi gain tones
of the tube amps - but the clean channels simply cannot match that
of the inexpensive solid-state Fender I'm used to.. The compression
and EQ range of the solid state amp cannot be replicated - I could
use an accoustic (pieozo) source on the solid state amp, and it'd
sound pretty darn good. The Marshall is close (EL84), but the
Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.

So, my question is, will a preamp solve my problem? Is it possible
to get a ss, marshall, and fender tone from a single preamp?
Contenders (given my limited experience):

ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels
Marshall JMP1 - doesn't appear to provide solid state - close tho?
Soldano - out of my price range, but could it do an accoustic source?

Maybe I need a complicated switching system to just friggen switch
between each of my amps? Using the power-amp-in of the HRD as the
poweramp? BTW, my fx loop is a g-major.


thanks for any insights,
edfardos

edfardos at uhh.. yahoooooooo.com

[LenBum2adelphia.net]

Post by edfardos
Hi all,
Over the past few years, I've stopped using my trusty Fender Stage
solid state amp, and started using a Marshall DSL combo, along with
a Fender Deluxe (HRD). I'm more than happy with the hi gain tones
of the tube amps - but the clean channels simply cannot match that
of the inexpensive solid-state Fender I'm used to.. The compression
and EQ range of the solid state amp cannot be replicated - I could
use an accoustic (pieozo) source on the solid state amp, and it'd
sound pretty darn good. The Marshall is close (EL84), but the
Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.
So, my question is, will a preamp solve my problem? Is it possible
to get a ss, marshall, and fender tone from a single preamp?
ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels
Marshall JMP1 - doesn't appear to provide solid state - close tho?
Soldano - out of my price range, but could it do an accoustic source?
Maybe I need a complicated switching system to just friggen switch
between each of my amps? Using the power-amp-in of the HRD as the
poweramp? BTW, my fx loop is a g-major.
thanks for any insights,
edfardos
edfardos at uhh.. yahoooooooo.com

The clean on my HRD sounds great, but is limited. Nos tubes and a Vintage 30
speaker. I A/B it right next to my 1970 silverface twin reverb. I can't
really crank it up so I'll assume yours doesn't stay clean as long as you
would like. It is called a "Hot Rod" for a reason. As for your question
about the preamp I'll let others with experience answer it.

[John S. Shinal]

Post by edfardos
ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels
Marshall JMP1 - doesn't appear to provide solid state - close tho?
Soldano - out of my price range, but could it do an accoustic source?
between each of my amps? Using the power-amp-in of the HRD as the
poweramp? BTW, my fx loop is a g-major.

Look into the Tech21 (Sansamp) PSA-1 - this is a very nice
sounding unit, and can be found used in good condition for far less
than the list price. Does cleans as well as slightly dirty, through
shred metal. It's NOT a digital unit, it's actually an analog modeler.
My review as well as many others are up on the Harmony Central
website.

And yes, you can run the output into a small combo amp - it
works great. I have a dual 15 band EQ in between, one side for master
EQ prior to the power amp, and the other side in the FX loop for
post-FX EQ.

Highly recommended for its good tone and wide versatility.



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[WakyAmps]

Post by edfardos
Hi all,
Over the past few years, I've stopped using my trusty Fender
Stage solid state amp, and started using a Marshall DSL
combo, along with a Fender Deluxe (HRD). I'm more than
happy with the hi gain tones of the tube amps - but the
clean channels simply cannot match that of the inexpensive
solid-state Fender I'm used to.. The compression and EQ
range of the solid state amp cannot be replicated - I could
use an accoustic (pieozo) source on the solid state amp, and
it'd sound pretty darn good. The Marshall is close (EL84),
but the Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.
So, my question is, will a preamp solve my problem? Is it
possible to get a ss, marshall, and fender tone from a
ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels
Marshall JMP1 - doesn't appear to provide solid state -
close tho? Soldano - out of my price range, but could it do
an accoustic source?
Maybe I need a complicated switching system to just friggen
switch between each of my amps? Using the power-amp-in of
the HRD as the poweramp? BTW, my fx loop is a g-major.
thanks for any insights,
edfardos
edfardos at uhh.. yahoooooooo.com

Just a thought, but maybe the question isn't really solid-state
vs. tube. Could be more a question of how you want the tone
stack laid out, and whether you can get what you're after in a
single circuit, or if you need multiple channels to A/B/C with.

Try playing with Duncan's "Tone Stack Calculator" here:
http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/index.html

[Jim Anable]

Post by edfardos
Hi all,
Over the past few years, I've stopped using my trusty Fender Stage
solid state amp, and started using a Marshall DSL combo, along with
a Fender Deluxe (HRD). I'm more than happy with the hi gain tones
of the tube amps - but the clean channels simply cannot match that
of the inexpensive solid-state Fender I'm used to.. The compression
and EQ range of the solid state amp cannot be replicated - I could
use an accoustic (pieozo) source on the solid state amp, and it'd
sound pretty darn good. The Marshall is close (EL84), but the
Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.
So, my question is, will a preamp solve my problem? Is it possible
to get a ss, marshall, and fender tone from a single preamp?
ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels
Marshall JMP1 - doesn't appear to provide solid state - close tho?
Soldano - out of my price range, but could it do an accoustic source?

There are some good preamps out there. If you are looking for a nice
clean, I like the Hughes and Kettner Tubeman Plus (not to be confused
with the floor Tubeman -- the Plus is a different design in a single rack
space). It's a very cool unit because it is set up for:

*recording, with EQ to emulate a cab,
*"Amp expander," or use like a pedal in front of an amp, or
*preamp, to feed a power amp.

The Tubeman plus uses one 12AX7, but it runs at true tube voltages. (Many
single 12AX7 units do NOT run the tube at high voltages that the tube is
designed for). It comes with a very solid dedicated footswitch (bypass,
clean, crunch, lead). Typical German H&K high quality construction.
GREAT clean tones, along with good crunch and even metal distortion. It
has a mids boost, which functions in all modes, and a Lead 2 switch that
gives HEAVY bottoms and more highs (only functions in lead mode). It
lacks reverb, but most tube preamps do not give you reverb. One thing
that sets this apart from my other preamps is the very reactive tone
controls, they do what you want them to do.

I'm awaiting delivery of my Super Reverb, and if it meets my
expectations, I could be eBaying some of my preamps in the next couple of
months. I just cannot justify all of the gear that I have accumulated.

[R]

I've only tried one preamp, so I can't compare it to others, but I like it a
lot: Ron Holmes' Tube Commander: http://www.holmeseng.com/index.html. It's
handmade by a guy in Bakersfield, CA. I posted a review here:
http://coast2coastmusic.com/cgi-bin/cart/HETC.html?id=De4HerjT. I can get a
very wide range of tones from it, and they all sound good to me.

Post by edfardos
Hi all,
Over the past few years, I've stopped using my trusty Fender Stage
solid state amp, and started using a Marshall DSL combo, along with
a Fender Deluxe (HRD). I'm more than happy with the hi gain tones
of the tube amps - but the clean channels simply cannot match that
of the inexpensive solid-state Fender I'm used to.. The compression
and EQ range of the solid state amp cannot be replicated - I could
use an accoustic (pieozo) source on the solid state amp, and it'd
sound pretty darn good. The Marshall is close (EL84), but the
Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.
So, my question is, will a preamp solve my problem? Is it possible
to get a ss, marshall, and fender tone from a single preamp?
ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels
Marshall JMP1 - doesn't appear to provide solid state - close tho?
Soldano - out of my price range, but could it do an accoustic source?
Maybe I need a complicated switching system to just friggen switch
between each of my amps? Using the power-amp-in of the HRD as the
poweramp? BTW, my fx loop is a g-major.
thanks for any insights,
edfardos
edfardos at uhh.. yahoooooooo.com

[Ernst Ottenbacher]

Post by edfardos
The Marshall is close (EL84), but the
Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.

Try a Celestion G12-T75 in your HRD (scooped mids)
Really!

Ernst

[Jack A. Zucker]

The Carvin Gambale preamp looks interesting too. SS analog modeling...

[Les Cargill]

Post by edfardos
Hi all,
Over the past few years, I've stopped using my trusty Fender Stage
solid state amp, and started using a Marshall DSL combo, along with
a Fender Deluxe (HRD). I'm more than happy with the hi gain tones
of the tube amps - but the clean channels simply cannot match that
of the inexpensive solid-state Fender I'm used to.. The compression
and EQ range of the solid state amp cannot be replicated - I could
use an accoustic (pieozo) source on the solid state amp, and it'd
sound pretty darn good. The Marshall is close (EL84), but the
Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.
So, my question is, will a preamp solve my problem? Is it possible
to get a ss, marshall, and fender tone from a single preamp?

I would look at two (2) things.

Firstly, getcha a 1936 Marshall cab under that HRD. The thing
drives a 1936 beautifully. Any closed back cab will do, but
the 1936 is smaller than a 4X12 and I know it'll work.

Second, get a good compressor in the F/X loop. It's not there as
a compressor so much as a last ditch master volume with
a compression knob.

Also also, try the Stage thru the bigger cab for
sparly clean. Rawks.

Post by edfardos
ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels
Marshall JMP1 - doesn't appear to provide solid state - close tho?
Soldano - out of my price range, but could it do an accoustic source?
Maybe I need a complicated switching system to just friggen switch
between each of my amps? Using the power-amp-in of the HRD as the
poweramp? BTW, my fx loop is a g-major.
thanks for any insights,
edfardos
edfardos at uhh.. yahoooooooo.com

--
Les Cargill

[Rob Valente]

Post by edfardos
Hi all,
Over the past few years, I've stopped using my trusty Fender Stage
solid state amp, and started using a Marshall DSL combo, along with
a Fender Deluxe (HRD). I'm more than happy with the hi gain tones
of the tube amps - but the clean channels simply cannot match that
of the inexpensive solid-state Fender I'm used to.. The compression
and EQ range of the solid state amp cannot be replicated - I could
use an accoustic (pieozo) source on the solid state amp, and it'd
sound pretty darn good. The Marshall is close (EL84), but the
Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.
So, my question is, will a preamp solve my problem? Is it possible
to get a ss, marshall, and fender tone from a single preamp?
ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels

Well I'm not sure if the MP-1 will give you "Fendery" cleans, but the
SS channel is beautiful when it comes to clean. It'll definately do
the hot rodded tones. It won't sound like a true Marshall, but some
may think that's a good thing. It has it's own character. They can't
be beat for the price.

Plus there are a lot of mods available now that offer some more tonal
options.

I have an MP-1 with the "Stock Gain mod" that I'm selling, and it
gives gain in spades, and does a nice crunchy "classic" distortion as
well as the nice SS clean.

Rob

[edfardos]

Wow - thanks for the detailed replies everyone!!

I should probably stress that I'm not looking for a warm
or distorted tone at all... looking for absolutely clean, as
if it was a PA with a high degree of eq control.

I still need to evaluate the preamps I suppose. I looked into
modding the HRD tone stack - all PCB - I shorted out the
tone stack completely, but it mostly cut the trebble and bass.
I tried putting an EQ in the HRD loop - but some frequencies
just aren't there. Specifically, on a strat in pos 2 or 4, it's
as if the openE string isn't even there! The LP and GodinLGX
sound reasonable however.

I do like the Marshall DSL clean channel, it's not exactly
solid state pristine, but it's better than fender - the EQ
knobs make a bigger difference.. the only problem there is
that the Marshall has a parallel fx loop (nullifying pitch, filter,
and compression effects in my loop). Do the JMP1 preamp
cleans sound like traditional marshalls?

Given my cash situation, perhaps I could get a switching
system which could switch between my solid state preamp,
HRD preamp - send the signal to the g-major, then drive
the power-amp in on the HRD? does something like that
exist? That would be ideal.. I could also kill the dry signal
on my marshall and make it a preamp-only (lifting R93
on the DSL401 model)..

Lastly, compression and turning the guitar volume down
to 9 gets rid of some of the brash midrange (thanks to those
of you who mentioned that here). But, still, I'm left wanting
the best of both worlds - solid state *and* tube tone...

edfardos

Post by edfardos
Hi all,
Over the past few years, I've stopped using my trusty Fender Stage
solid state amp, and started using a Marshall DSL combo, along with
a Fender Deluxe (HRD). I'm more than happy with the hi gain tones
of the tube amps - but the clean channels simply cannot match that
of the inexpensive solid-state Fender I'm used to.. The compression
and EQ range of the solid state amp cannot be replicated - I could
use an accoustic (pieozo) source on the solid state amp, and it'd
sound pretty darn good. The Marshall is close (EL84), but the
Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.
So, my question is, will a preamp solve my problem? Is it possible
to get a ss, marshall, and fender tone from a single preamp?
ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels
Marshall JMP1 - doesn't appear to provide solid state - close tho?
Soldano - out of my price range, but could it do an accoustic source?
Maybe I need a complicated switching system to just friggen switch
between each of my amps? Using the power-amp-in of the HRD as the
poweramp? BTW, my fx loop is a g-major.
thanks for any insights,
edfardos
edfardos at uhh.. yahoooooooo.com

[Jim Anable]

Post by edfardos
Wow - thanks for the detailed replies everyone!!
I should probably stress that I'm not looking for a warm
or distorted tone at all... looking for absolutely clean, as
if it was a PA with a high degree of eq control.

The Hughes and Kettner Tubeman Plus that I talked about really does a great clean, especially if you are
looking for a crispness. Tones are very reactive with my guitars. It is the best sounding clean that I've
found, and the distortions are also very good.

I could be eBaying mine in the near future, as I am anticipating that my Super Reverb will make the clean
sound in my rack obsolete. There's one available right now on eBay, sitting at just over $100 with over a
day to go. IIRC, I've got over $160 into mine, so I hope I can get a decent price out of it. If somebody
were to offer me $160, I'd skip the eBay hassle. Again, it operates as a recording preamp, pedal mode, or
preamp mode.

Instruction manual: http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/startseite/manuals/TubeTools/tmanplus.pdf

[Michael]

Post by edfardos
Wow - thanks for the detailed replies everyone!!
I should probably stress that I'm not looking for a warm
or distorted tone at all... looking for absolutely clean, as
if it was a PA with a high degree of eq control.

Well, I hesitate to say this, but the Pearce amps/preamps
are well regarded for their clean tone. I'm quite fond of
their distorted tone as well, but it was the clean tone all
the reviews raved about. Each of the two channels has a
semi-parametric midrange, making it tonally very versatile.
The downside is that Dan Pearce hasn't made any in years,
and they're somewhat hard to find. I use mine with the tc
electronic G-Major (which controls channel switching), and
I find it provides the best of both worlds: Programmability
and good old analogue knob-twiddling.
We all find our own path to tone heaven in the very weird
world of electric guitar.
---Michael (of Gambit)...

[howldog]

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:54:23 -0600, Michael

Post by Michael
The downside is that Dan Pearce hasn't made any in years,
and they're somewhat hard to find.

i've been told by others that the Pearce solid state is a thing of
beauty.

Post by Michael
I use mine with the tc
electronic G-Major (which controls channel switching),

what... exactly is that?

[Ron Thompson]

Post by howldog

Post by Michael
I use mine with the tc
electronic G-Major (which controls channel switching),

what... exactly is that?

It's for when you switch channels and you need control.

No, don't thank me, I don't mind helping out.
--
rct
The opinions above are mine and mine alone.

[Kings_Avenger]

Post by edfardos
Wow - thanks for the detailed replies everyone!!
I should probably stress that I'm not looking for a warm
or distorted tone at all... looking for absolutely clean, as
if it was a PA with a high degree of eq control.
I still need to evaluate the preamps I suppose. I looked into
modding the HRD tone stack - all PCB - I shorted out the
tone stack completely, but it mostly cut the trebble and bass.
I tried putting an EQ in the HRD loop - but some frequencies
just aren't there. Specifically, on a strat in pos 2 or 4, it's
as if the openE string isn't even there! The LP and GodinLGX
sound reasonable however.
I do like the Marshall DSL clean channel, it's not exactly
solid state pristine, but it's better than fender - the EQ
knobs make a bigger difference.. the only problem there is
that the Marshall has a parallel fx loop (nullifying pitch, filter,
and compression effects in my loop). Do the JMP1 preamp
cleans sound like traditional marshalls?
Given my cash situation, perhaps I could get a switching
system which could switch between my solid state preamp,
HRD preamp - send the signal to the g-major, then drive
the power-amp in on the HRD? does something like that
exist? That would be ideal.. I could also kill the dry signal
on my marshall and make it a preamp-only (lifting R93
on the DSL401 model)..
Lastly, compression and turning the guitar volume down
to 9 gets rid of some of the brash midrange (thanks to those
of you who mentioned that here). But, still, I'm left wanting
the best of both worlds - solid state *and* tube tone...
edfardos

Post by edfardos
Hi all,
Over the past few years, I've stopped using my trusty Fender Stage
solid state amp, and started using a Marshall DSL combo, along with
a Fender Deluxe (HRD). I'm more than happy with the hi gain tones
of the tube amps - but the clean channels simply cannot match that
of the inexpensive solid-state Fender I'm used to.. The compression
and EQ range of the solid state amp cannot be replicated - I could
use an accoustic (pieozo) source on the solid state amp, and it'd
sound pretty darn good. The Marshall is close (EL84), but the
Fender HRD's tone stack is nothing but midrange.
So, my question is, will a preamp solve my problem? Is it possible
to get a ss, marshall, and fender tone from a single preamp?
ADA MP1 - has solid-state as well as tube preamp channels
Marshall JMP1 - doesn't appear to provide solid state - close tho?
Soldano - out of my price range, but could it do an accoustic source?
Maybe I need a complicated switching system to just friggen switch
between each of my amps? Using the power-amp-in of the HRD as the
poweramp? BTW, my fx loop is a g-major.
thanks for any insights,
edfardos
edfardos at uhh.. yahoooooooo.com

I have to say that my experience has been the complete opposite from what you
state. I use, and I think as a rule a lot of folks do also, tube preamp for
clean sounds and solid-state preamps for heavy distortion. All that in front
of a tube amp.
Before we even get there, are you playing on a solid-state amp? If you want a
more clinical sound a solid state pa type amp, or any general all-purpose
type amp without any pre-amp can make it cleaner than anyone wants to be.

Avenger.

[l***@aol.com]

Post by edfardos
Maybe I need a complicated switching system to just friggen switch
between each of my amps.

I think you answered your own question best with this. Except for the
word "complicated" (it's very simple & we all did it as long as 35 yrs
ago). "Complicated" better describes all the other ideas being
flailed away at. You are right that both clean & decent EQ are
usually much better with SS amps. Another way to go at it is to Y
both & play you axe in a manner that emphasizes one or the other. But
all you need to switch btw them is an ordinary push/push toggle switch
in a box.