Discussion:
"Religion of Peace" Representatives Behead an American Civilian
(too old to reply)
zorro_2k
2004-09-20 22:55:08 UTC
Permalink
This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
on their turf, or on ours.

http://www.libertyunites.tv/
Eric Deibler
2004-09-21 00:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Calling these guys "representatives" of Islam is like calling Fred
Phelps and Randall Terry "reperesentatives" of Chrsitianity. I'm
Christian, but they sure don't represent me.
eric
Post by zorro_2k
This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
on their turf, or on ours.
http://www.libertyunites.tv/
Jeff Engelmann
2004-09-21 02:02:54 UTC
Permalink
http://www.ogrish.com/movies/ogrish-dot-com-eugene-armstrong-beheading-video.wmv
This link works if the other one doesn't.
Everyone should have to watch one of these just to get a real feel for what
we are up against.
.
Post by Eric Deibler
Calling these guys "representatives" of Islam is like calling Fred
Phelps and Randall Terry "reperesentatives" of Chrsitianity. I'm
Christian, but they sure don't represent me.
eric
Post by zorro_2k
This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
on their turf, or on ours.
http://www.libertyunites.tv/
Rich Koerner
2004-09-21 02:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Deibler
Post by zorro_2k
This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
on their turf, or on ours.
http://www.libertyunites.tv/
Calling these guys "representatives" of Islam is like calling Fred
Phelps and Randall Terry "reperesentatives" of Chrsitianity. I'm
Christian, but they sure don't represent me.
eric
Well Eric, I've read your words of Christian condemnation.

But where are those SAME words from that "religion of PEACE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From either HERE, in the USA, or from the Sand Pile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHERE IS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


<thinking>

WITHOUT IT, there is ONLY one thing to conclude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Their Silence,.... CONDONES the KILLING and BEHEADING.

That's it, End of Story, Case Closed.


Regards,

Rich Koerner,
Time Electronics.
http://www.timeelect.com

Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
Music & Studio Production,
Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
The Repair Guy
2004-09-21 02:46:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Koerner
Post by Eric Deibler
Calling these guys "representatives" of Islam
is like calling Fred Phelps and Randall Terry
"reperesentatives" of Chrsitianity. I'm Christian,
but they sure don't represent me.
Well Eric, I've read your words of Christian
condemnation.
Better re-read them, sport. He didn't condemn
Christianity that I could see, and I sort of keep
an eye out for that kind of thing. He said that
extremists don't represent the mass. It's true.
Post by Rich Koerner
WITHOUT IT, there is ONLY one thing to
conclude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
... for someone looking for quick, black & white
answers, that is. It's very seldom that only one
conclusion that can be drawn - unless it's just
a thoughtless, knee-jerk response. Generally,
the more you learn about something, the less
black & white things look.
Post by Rich Koerner
Their Silence,.... CONDONES the KILLING
and BEHEADING.
Like the "silence" of the majority of US citizens
meant that we condoned atrocities in Viet Nam
(and elsewhere)? Get real. We have very little
voice in world affairs, and I suspect that Joe
Average over there doesn't, either.

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
D.R.
2004-09-21 03:38:28 UTC
Permalink
"The Repair Guy" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4vOdnan5qeBhCdLcRVn-***@centurytel.net...
<SNIP>He said that extremists don't represent the mass. It's true.

But these "extremists" are doing exactly what Mohammed told them to do in the
Qur'an. Kind makes them not so extreme and the mass majority of Islam kinda
luke-warm if you get my drift.
Dave Moore
2004-09-21 08:44:18 UTC
Permalink
"D.R." <D.R. @ NZ> wrote in message news:0gN3d.4789$***@news.xtra.co.nz...
:
: "The Repair Guy" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: news:4vOdnan5qeBhCdLcRVn-***@centurytel.net...
: <SNIP>He said that extremists don't represent the mass. It's true.
:
: But these "extremists" are doing exactly what Mohammed told them to do in the
: Qur'an. Kind makes them not so extreme and the mass majority of Islam kinda
: luke-warm if you get my drift.
:


The mass majority of Islam *has* denounced terrorism.


OTOH, there aren't a whole lot of mainstream christians
that denounce revenge in favor of forgiveness, even though
Christ told them to




:
D.R.
2004-09-21 09:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Moore
: <SNIP>He said that extremists don't represent the mass. It's true.
: But these "extremists" are doing exactly what Mohammed told them to do in the
: Qur'an. Kind makes them not so extreme and the mass majority of Islam kinda
: luke-warm if you get my drift.
The mass majority of Islam *has* denounced terrorism.
Really? That would entail renouncing parts of the Qur'an that detail what is to
be done with the infidals (jews, christians and now also westerners).
Post by Dave Moore
OTOH, there aren't a whole lot of mainstream christians
that denounce revenge in favor of forgiveness, even though
Christ told them to
Depends what you call "christian". Many go by that name, but as Christ said "A
tree in known by its fruit", "a good tree cannot produce bad fruit". Many
so-called Christians are not. Christians are called to be Christ-like, ie.
uphold and internalize His teaching. Forgiveness, love, compassion, etc and not
hatred, revenge or war-mongering.
Ned Carlson
2004-09-22 08:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.R.
Really? That would entail renouncing parts of the Qur'an that detail what
is to be done with the infidals (jews, christians and now also
westerners).
Like, say, the parts of the Qur'an that dictate tolerance to people
"of the book"..the book means the Bible, and other than what
Muhammad added to it, it's the same (well, roughly speaking)
Torah and Bible that Jews & Christians read.

If the Qur'an says that all infidels are to be eliminated..
oops, Jews & Christians aren't infidels, they believe in the
same God the Muslims do, but worship Him differently...why
do Copts, Maronites, & Assyrians continue to live in Muslim
countries?

This war isn't about religion, it's about money & OIL. Period.
Something like $20 billion of oil has been pumped out of Iraq
since this war began, why hasn't that money been spent putting
Iraqis to work, instead of building car bombs? Why is
Halliburton putting up their employees in Four Seasons hotels
on my (American taxpayers) tab?

The first thing John Kerry should do upon becoming President
is expropriate Halliburton in the name of the American people
and distribute the proceeds to the American taxpayers they've
ripped off. Oh, I forgot, we're in the USA, not Mexico, the
profits of assholes like Dick Cheney are sacred.
Lazaro Cardenas, where are you?

What really pisses me off is George W Bush's smirk. Over 1,000
Americans have died, for no good reason. But Georgie
smirks like he just did a beer bong.
Yes, Saddam Hussein sucks and he got his just desserts. But
so do dictators in Cuba, Sudan and North Korea. Cuba is 90 miles
from Florida.

No real fiscal conservative can approve of the activities of
the Bush asdministration, basically it's pinstripe patronage
gone amuck. Porkbarrelling on a level NEVER SEEN BEFORE in US
history. The Republicans are piling pork barrel crap onto
bills for hurricane relief like there's no tomorrow. (ask
Robert Novak). Yep, that Contract For America is really
a Contract On America. The Republicans got control of
Congress promising responible spending, instead we're
paying interest on a $700 billion deficit.

Lastly, consider what's going to happen pretty soon. The Bush
administration devalued the dollar by 30%, eventually that's
going to catch up with us.(Higher prices). Interest rates
have been artifically deflated, they have to come up
to finance the deficit. The USA depends on $1 trillion
of exports to keep its economy afloat, how long is that going
to last if we keep taking a whiz on our trading partners?

If you enjoy standing in a bread line, by all means, vote
for Smirky Bush and his fatcat buddies.

Bush is talking loads of shit about privatizing Social Security,
but it's Social Security (which invests all its money in
GOVERMENT BONDS) that's propping up GWB's billions of
deficit spending. Georgie's talk about privatizing
Social Security is a load of bullshit. GWB needs
Condie Rice's help and slush money from SSA just to balance
his personal checkbook.

Willie, you are right, George W Bush is not a conservative.

My money is on enough real conservatives who are sick of GWB
voting their conscience (namely, voting Libertarian) to get GWB
and his smirky pinstripe-patronage buddies out of office.
At least we'll have something resembling control over the Democrats,
--
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics Chicago,IL USA
www.triodeelectronics.com
Lord Valve
2004-09-22 09:22:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Carlson
Willie, you are right, George W Bush is not a conservative.
No, he ain't. But he's *ever* so much better than Lurch
the Spook Hat Kid, who dropped acid while watching
Apocalypse Now and believes he was the star.

Your boy's a fuckin' CRACKPOT, and he's toast. He's *nuts*.

Wait and see.

Lord Valve
ANYBODY but KERRY, '04
Greg Pierce
2004-09-22 11:31:46 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:29:48 -0500, the highly esteemed Ned Carlson
Post by D.R.
Really? That would entail renouncing parts of the Qur'an that detail
what is to be done with the infidals (jews, christians and now also
westerners).
Like, say, the parts of the Qur'an that dictate tolerance to people "of
the book"..the book means the Bible, and other than what Muhammad added to
it, it's the same (well, roughly speaking) Torah and Bible that Jews &
Christians read.
If the Qur'an says that all infidels are to be eliminated.. oops, Jews &
Christians aren't infidels, they believe in the same God the Muslims do,
but worship Him differently...why do Copts, Maronites, & Assyrians
continue to live in Muslim countries?
Wrong answer, scooter. If you aren't a Muslim, then you are an infidel.
Period.
--
Greg
Ed Cregger
2004-09-22 11:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Carlson
Post by D.R.
Really? That would entail renouncing parts of the Qur'an that detail what
is to be done with the infidals (jews, christians and now also
westerners).
Like, say, the parts of the Qur'an that dictate tolerance to people
"of the book"..the book means the Bible, and other than what
Muhammad added to it, it's the same (well, roughly speaking)
Torah and Bible that Jews & Christians read.
If the Qur'an says that all infidels are to be eliminated..
oops, Jews & Christians aren't infidels, they believe in the
same God the Muslims do, but worship Him differently...why
do Copts, Maronites, & Assyrians continue to live in Muslim
countries?
This war isn't about religion, it's about money & OIL. Period.
Something like $20 billion of oil has been pumped out of Iraq
since this war began, why hasn't that money been spent putting
Iraqis to work, instead of building car bombs? Why is
Halliburton putting up their employees in Four Seasons hotels
on my (American taxpayers) tab?
The first thing John Kerry should do upon becoming President
is expropriate Halliburton in the name of the American people
and distribute the proceeds to the American taxpayers they've
ripped off. Oh, I forgot, we're in the USA, not Mexico, the
profits of assholes like Dick Cheney are sacred.
Lazaro Cardenas, where are you?
What really pisses me off is George W Bush's smirk. Over 1,000
Americans have died, for no good reason. But Georgie
smirks like he just did a beer bong.
Yes, Saddam Hussein sucks and he got his just desserts. But
so do dictators in Cuba, Sudan and North Korea. Cuba is 90 miles
from Florida.
No real fiscal conservative can approve of the activities of
the Bush asdministration, basically it's pinstripe patronage
gone amuck. Porkbarrelling on a level NEVER SEEN BEFORE in US
history. The Republicans are piling pork barrel crap onto
bills for hurricane relief like there's no tomorrow. (ask
Robert Novak). Yep, that Contract For America is really
a Contract On America. The Republicans got control of
Congress promising responible spending, instead we're
paying interest on a $700 billion deficit.
Lastly, consider what's going to happen pretty soon. The Bush
administration devalued the dollar by 30%, eventually that's
going to catch up with us.(Higher prices). Interest rates
have been artifically deflated, they have to come up
to finance the deficit. The USA depends on $1 trillion
of exports to keep its economy afloat, how long is that going
to last if we keep taking a whiz on our trading partners?
If you enjoy standing in a bread line, by all means, vote
for Smirky Bush and his fatcat buddies.
Bush is talking loads of shit about privatizing Social Security,
but it's Social Security (which invests all its money in
GOVERMENT BONDS) that's propping up GWB's billions of
deficit spending. Georgie's talk about privatizing
Social Security is a load of bullshit. GWB needs
Condie Rice's help and slush money from SSA just to balance
his personal checkbook.
Willie, you are right, George W Bush is not a conservative.
My money is on enough real conservatives who are sick of GWB
voting their conscience (namely, voting Libertarian) to get GWB
and his smirky pinstripe-patronage buddies out of office.
At least we'll have something resembling control over the Democrats,
Anyone that believes either candidate is naive.

The rich people want to take away all of your money and the lefties want to
take away all of your freedom. That doesn't sound like much of a choice to
me.

And before anyone says anything, the rich folks want to reduce the working
people of the world to peasant status. They brag about not taking your money
in taxes while they ship what used to be the good paying jobs over seas. Who
cares about taxes if you don't have any money to tax?

We need to move away from conservatism (living in the past) and progressives
(living in the clouds) and get real.

Ed Cregger
M*an
2004-09-22 13:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Uh, "Patriot Act"?

"The rich people want to take away all of your money and the lefties
want to take away all of your freedom." -Ed Cregger
John S. Shinal
2004-09-22 15:02:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Cregger
Anyone that believes either candidate is naive.
Partial agreement is about the best we can hope for on either
side. Our system for creating future leaders is seriously broken.
Post by Ed Cregger
The rich people want to take away all of your money and the lefties want to
take away all of your freedom.
The lefties want all my money, too - and the
arch-conservatives have made some disturbing inroads on freedoms in
the name of law enforcement or things like Eminent Domain.
Post by Ed Cregger
That doesn't sound like much of a choice to me.
Nope.
Post by Ed Cregger
while they ship what used to be the good paying jobs over seas.
You know, I happen to think that it's folly to believe that
"great paying US jobs" will exist in perpetuity without changing to
meet the modern truths.

It's simple math that it's more expensive to produce TVs,
shoes, car stereos, cell phones, clothing, etc in the US. The rebirth
of US manufacturing can only come with a new generation of innovation
like we have had previously.

Automobile production, televisions, consumer electronics, all
have enjoyed a major innovation phase while they were being adapted,
invented or built in the US, making them popular with US consumers.
This then spread to other countries. A similar sequence can occur if
we have something that is a new and appealing technology - such as all
the items that would be needed for a hydrogen/fuel cell power
industry. American innovation, and initially US production, and then a
spread worldwide.

We can't just keep producing shoes and socks forever, and
complain that we're not getting paid enough to perform grunt work in a
factory. New skills are needed. New inventions and applications are
needed. And the world does not stand still. India and Malaysia
enthusiastically adopt technology skills they see us making money at.
Nothing will stay constant.

Eventually, the Indians will be complaining about losing jobs
to millions of Linux programmers living on the ice in Antarctica.
Those penguins know Linux software very well, and they work for sushi.


;-D
Post by Ed Cregger
We need to move away from conservatism (living in the past) and progressives
(living in the clouds) and get real.
As you note, the best practices tend to be somewhere in the
middle. I think emotionalism, rather than logic, drives too many
people's decisions. That's a shame, because it does a lot of damage.
Ed Cregger
2004-09-22 15:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by John S. Shinal
Post by Ed Cregger
Anyone that believes either candidate is naive.
Partial agreement is about the best we can hope for on either
side. Our system for creating future leaders is seriously broken.
Post by Ed Cregger
The rich people want to take away all of your money and the lefties want to
take away all of your freedom.
The lefties want all my money, too - and the
arch-conservatives have made some disturbing inroads on freedoms in
the name of law enforcement or things like Eminent Domain.
Post by Ed Cregger
That doesn't sound like much of a choice to me.
Nope.
Post by Ed Cregger
while they ship what used to be the good paying jobs over seas.
You know, I happen to think that it's folly to believe that
"great paying US jobs" will exist in perpetuity without changing to
meet the modern truths.
It's simple math that it's more expensive to produce TVs,
shoes, car stereos, cell phones, clothing, etc in the US. The rebirth
of US manufacturing can only come with a new generation of innovation
like we have had previously.
Automobile production, televisions, consumer electronics, all
have enjoyed a major innovation phase while they were being adapted,
invented or built in the US, making them popular with US consumers.
This then spread to other countries. A similar sequence can occur if
we have something that is a new and appealing technology - such as all
the items that would be needed for a hydrogen/fuel cell power
industry. American innovation, and initially US production, and then a
spread worldwide.
We can't just keep producing shoes and socks forever, and
complain that we're not getting paid enough to perform grunt work in a
factory. New skills are needed. New inventions and applications are
needed. And the world does not stand still. India and Malaysia
enthusiastically adopt technology skills they see us making money at.
Nothing will stay constant.
Eventually, the Indians will be complaining about losing jobs
to millions of Linux programmers living on the ice in Antarctica.
Those penguins know Linux software very well, and they work for sushi.
;-D
Post by Ed Cregger
We need to move away from conservatism (living in the past) and progressives
(living in the clouds) and get real.
As you note, the best practices tend to be somewhere in the
middle. I think emotionalism, rather than logic, drives too many
people's decisions. That's a shame, because it does a lot of damage.
Anything can be abused to the point of being ridiculous. Free market
thinking is one such thing. People need to make a reasonable living, or
heads will eventually roll.

Were I King of The World, I would decree that all goods sold in a particular
country would mandatorily be manufactured in that country by citizens of
that country.

I would also decree that wages and benefits would be standardized around the
world. I would not cap the maximum amount that average workers could earn,
but I would require all countries to pay at least the same minimum wage,
benefits and operate according to good environmental practice. There would
be no running to an underdeveloped nation to take advantage of their lack of
environmental and labor laws.

Seriously, folks. As ridiculous as it sounds, much of the above will come to
pass, if we survive long enough as a species.

Free market economics are just as horrifying and merciless as communism. We
need to find stable footing somewhere in between.

Ed Cregger
GITTERDUN!!!!
2004-09-22 19:47:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Cregger
Were I King of The World, I would
[BEHEADED]
Kevin Singleton
2004-09-24 21:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by John S. Shinal
Partial agreement is about the best we can hope for on either
side. Our system for creating future leaders is seriously broken.
The lefties want all my money, too - and the
arch-conservatives have made some disturbing inroads on freedoms in
the name of law enforcement or things like Eminent Domain.
You know, I happen to think that it's folly to believe that
"great paying US jobs" will exist in perpetuity without changing to
meet the modern truths.
It's simple math that it's more expensive to produce TVs,
shoes, car stereos, cell phones, clothing, etc in the US. The rebirth
of US manufacturing can only come with a new generation of innovation
like we have had previously.
Automobile production, televisions, consumer electronics, all
have enjoyed a major innovation phase while they were being adapted,
invented or built in the US, making them popular with US consumers.
This then spread to other countries. A similar sequence can occur if
we have something that is a new and appealing technology - such as all
the items that would be needed for a hydrogen/fuel cell power
industry. American innovation, and initially US production, and then a
spread worldwide.
We can't just keep producing shoes and socks forever, and
complain that we're not getting paid enough to perform grunt work in a
factory. New skills are needed. New inventions and applications are
needed. And the world does not stand still. India and Malaysia
enthusiastically adopt technology skills they see us making money at.
Nothing will stay constant.
Eventually, the Indians will be complaining about losing jobs
to millions of Linux programmers living on the ice in Antarctica.
Those penguins know Linux software very well, and they work for sushi.
As you note, the best practices tend to be somewhere in the
middle. I think emotionalism, rather than logic, drives too many
people's decisions. That's a shame, because it does a lot of damage.
Very level-headed response, John.
--
Kevin
-=#=-
www.freerepublic.com
zootwoman
2004-09-23 19:20:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Cregger
Post by Ned Carlson
Post by D.R.
Really? That would entail renouncing parts of the Qur'an that detail what
is to be done with the infidals (jews, christians and now also
westerners).
Like, say, the parts of the Qur'an that dictate tolerance to people
"of the book"..the book means the Bible, and other than what
Muhammad added to it, it's the same (well, roughly speaking)
Torah and Bible that Jews & Christians read.
If the Qur'an says that all infidels are to be eliminated..
oops, Jews & Christians aren't infidels, they believe in the
same God the Muslims do, but worship Him differently...why
do Copts, Maronites, & Assyrians continue to live in Muslim
countries?
This war isn't about religion, it's about money & OIL. Period.
Something like $20 billion of oil has been pumped out of Iraq
since this war began, why hasn't that money been spent putting
Iraqis to work, instead of building car bombs? Why is
Halliburton putting up their employees in Four Seasons hotels
on my (American taxpayers) tab?
The first thing John Kerry should do upon becoming President
is expropriate Halliburton in the name of the American people
and distribute the proceeds to the American taxpayers they've
ripped off. Oh, I forgot, we're in the USA, not Mexico, the
profits of assholes like Dick Cheney are sacred.
Lazaro Cardenas, where are you?
What really pisses me off is George W Bush's smirk. Over 1,000
Americans have died, for no good reason. But Georgie
smirks like he just did a beer bong.
Yes, Saddam Hussein sucks and he got his just desserts. But
so do dictators in Cuba, Sudan and North Korea. Cuba is 90 miles
from Florida.
No real fiscal conservative can approve of the activities of
the Bush asdministration, basically it's pinstripe patronage
gone amuck. Porkbarrelling on a level NEVER SEEN BEFORE in US
history. The Republicans are piling pork barrel crap onto
bills for hurricane relief like there's no tomorrow. (ask
Robert Novak). Yep, that Contract For America is really
a Contract On America. The Republicans got control of
Congress promising responible spending, instead we're
paying interest on a $700 billion deficit.
Lastly, consider what's going to happen pretty soon. The Bush
administration devalued the dollar by 30%, eventually that's
going to catch up with us.(Higher prices). Interest rates
have been artifically deflated, they have to come up
to finance the deficit. The USA depends on $1 trillion
of exports to keep its economy afloat, how long is that going
to last if we keep taking a whiz on our trading partners?
If you enjoy standing in a bread line, by all means, vote
for Smirky Bush and his fatcat buddies.
Bush is talking loads of shit about privatizing Social Security,
but it's Social Security (which invests all its money in
GOVERMENT BONDS) that's propping up GWB's billions of
deficit spending. Georgie's talk about privatizing
Social Security is a load of bullshit. GWB needs
Condie Rice's help and slush money from SSA just to balance
his personal checkbook.
Willie, you are right, George W Bush is not a conservative.
My money is on enough real conservatives who are sick of GWB
voting their conscience (namely, voting Libertarian) to get GWB
and his smirky pinstripe-patronage buddies out of office.
At least we'll have something resembling control over the Democrats,
Anyone that believes either candidate is naive.
The rich people want to take away all of your money and the lefties want to
take away all of your freedom. That doesn't sound like much of a choice to
me.
And before anyone says anything, the rich folks want to reduce the working
people of the world to peasant status. They brag about not taking your money
in taxes while they ship what used to be the good paying jobs over seas. Who
cares about taxes if you don't have any money to tax?
We need to move away from conservatism (living in the past) and progressives
(living in the clouds) and get real.
Ed Cregger
I believe it is Ashcroft who is dressing statues these days. Righty is
so tighty. Righties are much more dangerous that leftie looseys
regarding personal civil right and also business rights. Righties will
do anything Monopolisitc Global Inc tells them to do that will kill
their competition while claiming lefties are against business. Theory
- How are Global Inc with their righty henchmen like Stalin? They both
wiped out the merchant and middle class. In both systems there's a few
demigods on top riding the masses below.
Different names for the same kinda result. You don't have to send all
your dissents to Syberia to get rid of them. There are other ways, you
can hypnotise them with TV into complacency. You can use the best
propaganda the world has ever seen and you can subvert the language.
The presto chango, all you righties who claim to be so interested in
freedom are supporting the very tool of your own enslavement and you
don't even realize it.
Gtski
2004-09-23 13:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Carlson
Post by D.R.
Really? That would entail renouncing parts of the Qur'an that detail what
is to be done with the infidals (jews, christians and now also
westerners).
Like, say, the parts of the Qur'an that dictate tolerance to people
"of the book"..the book means the Bible, and other than what
Muhammad added to it, it's the same (well, roughly speaking)
Torah and Bible that Jews & Christians read.
Remove "Torah", and yes.... it's the "book"...
Post by Ned Carlson
If the Qur'an says that all infidels are to be eliminated..
oops, Jews & Christians aren't infidels, they believe in the
same God the Muslims do, but worship Him differently...why
do Copts, Maronites, & Assyrians continue to live in Muslim
countries?
Ah... because they "Look" like Arabs.. ? ? ;-)
Post by Ned Carlson
This war isn't about religion, it's about money & OIL. Period.
Something like $20 billion of oil has been pumped out of Iraq
since this war began, why hasn't that money been spent putting
Iraqis to work, instead of building car bombs? Why is
Halliburton putting up their employees in Four Seasons hotels
on my (American taxpayers) tab?
Because the Four Seasons is possibly the SAFE-EST place for them to
be.. ? ? ? ?
Post by Ned Carlson
The first thing John Kerry should do upon becoming President
is expropriate Halliburton in the name of the American people
and distribute the proceeds to the American taxpayers they've
ripped off. Oh, I forgot, we're in the USA, not Mexico, the
profits of assholes like Dick Cheney are sacred.
Lazaro Cardenas, where are you?
Oh come on... If you had even an ounce of a clue... you'd know that
Cheney's "profits" are deferred payments for services rendered years
ago... can't blame Cheney for wanting to reduce his taxes..! ! !
That's a totally AMERICAN thing to do...! ! ! ! !
Post by Ned Carlson
What really pisses me off is George W Bush's smirk. Over 1,000
Americans have died, for no good reason. But Georgie
smirks like he just did a beer bong.
The contention is.... "no good reason"... some folk think there is
PLENTY good reason...
Post by Ned Carlson
Yes, Saddam Hussein sucks and he got his just desserts.
Uh... WHAT.. ? ? How did he GET his "just desserts".. ? ? ? By
waking up one day and jumping into custody.. ? ? ? ?
Post by Ned Carlson
But so do dictators in Cuba, Sudan and North Korea. Cuba is 90 miles
from Florida.
So... your point.. ? ? ? ? Cuba is a has-been derelict communistic
failure of a country.... after Russia stopped supporting them, they've
wither'd on the vine and are waiting for Castro to die....
Post by Ned Carlson
No real fiscal conservative can approve of the activities of
the Bush asdministration, basically it's pinstripe patronage
gone amuck.
Uh... what.. ? ? Greenspan himself,,, as well as plenty of other
economists have stated that the 'tax cuts' should be made permenant...
that the Congress should curtail it's spending...
Post by Ned Carlson
Porkbarrelling on a level NEVER SEEN BEFORE in US
history. The Republicans are piling pork barrel crap onto
bills for hurricane relief like there's no tomorrow. (ask
Robert Novak).
This is not a Republican only phenomenom... disaster relief is a
bi-partizan pork extraveganza.....
Post by Ned Carlson
Yep, that Contract For America is really a Contract On America. The
Republicans got control of Congress promising responible spending,
instead we're paying interest on a $700 billion deficit.
What.. ? ? The population FREAKED when the people they voted in to
impliment the "contract for america" actually began to impliment
*change*... People don't want "change"... they want change for the
betterment of THEMSELVES...! ! ! ! !
Post by Ned Carlson
Lastly, consider what's going to happen pretty soon. The Bush
administration devalued the dollar by 30%, eventually that's
going to catch up with us.(Higher prices). Interest rates
have been artifically deflated, they have to come up
to finance the deficit. The USA depends on $1 trillion
of exports to keep its economy afloat, how long is that going
to last if we keep taking a whiz on our trading partners?
Look at the historical ( 50 years) relationship of the US to its'
trading partners...
Post by Ned Carlson
If you enjoy standing in a bread line, by all means, vote
for Smirky Bush and his fatcat buddies.
Be serious... 'bread lines'.. you're funny..! ! ! ! ! ! !
It won't be Bush who brings 'bread lines'....
Post by Ned Carlson
Bush is talking loads of shit about privatizing Social Security,
but it's Social Security (which invests all its money in
GOVERMENT BONDS) that's propping up GWB's billions of
deficit spending.
Get a GRIP dude..! ! ! Social Security doesnt' INVEST in
ANYTHING..! ! ! ! Thats the problem..! ! ! SS has been
over-funded for decades and the excess has been deposited into the
'general fund' creating a "secret tax"... by allowing people to
privately invest SS funds, this will take the retirement money OUT of
the poloticians hands and keep it in the hands of the people who NEED
it upon retirement....
Post by Ned Carlson
Georgie's talk about privatizing
Social Security is a load of bullshit. GWB needs
Condie Rice's help and slush money from SSA just to balance
his personal checkbook.
Ugh... you're dreaming...
Post by Ned Carlson
Willie, you are right, George W Bush is not a conservative.
He's not... because he is involved in so many non-conservative
agendas...
Post by Ned Carlson
My money is on enough real conservatives who are sick of GWB
voting their conscience (namely, voting Libertarian) to get GWB
and his smirky pinstripe-patronage buddies out of office.
Your money is GONE..... how much are you willing to bet on the
election.. ? ? ? ? ?
Post by Ned Carlson
At least we'll have something resembling control over the Democrats,
Eh..??????????
Post by Ned Carlson
--
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics Chicago,IL USA
www.triodeelectronics.com
Spike
2004-09-24 21:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Carlson
What really pisses me off is George W Bush's smirk. Over 1,000
Americans have died, for no good reason.
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics Chicago,IL USA
www.triodeelectronics.com
Ned,

This ain't viet-nam! They came and took our towers.


They came into OUR HOMELAND.

They had you and all of my beloved Chicagoland in their sights
with two nukes that were taken in Minnosota before they
could be detonated there my friend!


You sir are a very lucky man...so PISS OFF.


We are fighting over there so you can sit and piss and moan your
heart away, safe and sound, feet uopn the ground. selling tubes
and dynaco kits etc.

What a horrible awakening it would be for all these liberals
if the fight were here in our homelands.

Think of your neighbors, wives, husbands, kids,
friends,boyfriends, girlfirends, businesses, hospitals, schools etc
as they were slaughtered before you?

How would you feel then?


WE ARE AT WAR

WE ARE AT THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS

RIGHT HERE

RIGHT NOW

BEFORE OUR VERY EYES.

WE

NOT me,

NOT you,

WE


SO the likes of you and yourn piss and moan all you want.


GOD BLESS THE MEN, WOMEN, and OUR LEADERSHIP

For

KEEPING OUR UNITED STATES of AMERICA

SAFE.


Regards,

Spike
zootwoman
2004-09-24 22:06:10 UTC
Permalink
Is that satire?????
Elvis Kabong
2004-09-25 00:16:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by Ned Carlson
What really pisses me off is George W Bush's smirk. Over 1,000
Americans have died, for no good reason.
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics Chicago,IL USA
www.triodeelectronics.com
Ned,
This ain't viet-nam! They came and took our towers.
*They* as in terrorist Saudi Arabians, right?
Post by Spike
They came into OUR HOMELAND.
*They* are dead now, remember? *They* died when they crashed
those airliners.
Post by Spike
They had you and all of my beloved Chicagoland in their sights
with two nukes that were taken in Minnosota before they
could be detonated there my friend!
Could you provide a link to that story?
Post by Spike
You sir are a very lucky man...so PISS OFF.
What's your problem, Speck?
Post by Spike
We are fighting over there so you can sit and piss and moan your
heart away, safe and sound, feet uopn the ground. selling tubes
and dynaco kits etc.
Hey Speck, you aren't over there. Why not? You think you're
a tough guy, why aren't you there? Chicken? You certainly
talk the talk, well?
Post by Spike
What a horrible awakening it would be for all these liberals
if the fight were here in our homelands.
Like how is the army of Iraq going to get here, genius?
Star Trek transport machines? Oh, they'd be swimming
over if we weren't bombing them to give them the democracy
they didn't ask for. Oh, I get it. The horror, the horror - Iraqis
slithering up our shores like eels and overthrowing our
beloved homeland with the overwhelming force of
the deadly box-cutters. Wow, you really have me
peeing in my pants from fear. Please excuse me
while I go wipe.
Post by Spike
Think of your neighbors, wives, husbands, kids,
friends,boyfriends, girlfirends, businesses, hospitals, schools etc
as they were slaughtered before you?
Stop! Please stop! I can't take it! Are you trying to drive me insane?
The US has a strong military and now you're convincing me
they couldn't stop that awful slaughter of my neighbors, wives,
husbands, kids, friends,boyfriends, girlfirends, businesses,
hospitals, schools etc???
Post by Spike
How would you feel then?
Well, I'm afraid now! I used to think our military and police
could handle it, but you've convinced me they would be
*completely powerless* if what was left of Iraq's army
invaded the US mainland!
Post by Spike
WE ARE AT WAR
Where?
Post by Spike
WE ARE AT THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS
Rednecks against camel jockeys? Isn't that the name
of a TV show? Is that some new sport?
Post by Spike
RIGHT HERE
Here? But you said it was over there and how we should be
glad it is since if they came here they would kill all of us.
You mean we should nuke the USA to get rid of them?
Post by Spike
RIGHT NOW
Now? Right now? Where? I don't see hear any warmongering
going on *here*! You mean that figuratively? If you mean
that figuratively, what do you mean by that?
Post by Spike
BEFORE OUR VERY EYES.
On TV, sure, I guess that's what you mean. But TV can
be doctored up. Fiction can be made to look realistic.
Are you sure it's happening right before our very eyes?
You have very eyes? What are very eyes?
Post by Spike
WE
NOT me,
NOT you,
WE
Ok, We instead of you or me, We. But if you or me are not,
where's we?
Post by Spike
SO the likes of you and yourn piss and moan all you want.
Piss and moan? What about being afraid because we are
at war *before our very eyes*. What about what is *after our very eyes*?
Post by Spike
GOD BLESS THE MEN, WOMEN, and OUR LEADERSHIP
But fuck the kids, right? Typical fanaticon economic policy too.
Post by Spike
For
KEEPING OUR UNITED STATES of AMERICA
SAFE.
Oh, I understand now. The best way to stay safe is to invade some
other country even when the rest the world advises against and
when most of the voters never voted for the bastard who invaded
some country that seemed like they were going to go to war by
invading us, we are being kept safe by generating more
hatred and more enemies. How does that compute?
Post by Spike
Regards,
Spike
Were you born a boy genius?
Boyd Williamson
2004-09-25 03:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by Ned Carlson
What really pisses me off is George W Bush's smirk. Over 1,000
Americans have died, for no good reason.
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics Chicago,IL USA
www.triodeelectronics.com
Ned,
This ain't viet-nam!
That ain't Afghanistan!
Post by Spike
They came and took our towers.
Uh, pssst...(that was Al Queda in Afghanistan, not Iraq).
Post by Spike
They came into OUR HOMELAND.
Ahem... (Al Queda, Afghanistan, Bin Ladin?).
Post by Spike
They had you and all of my beloved Chicagoland in their sights
with two nukes that were taken in Minnosota before they
could be detonated there my friend!
I must have missed that on the the news? But I guess I can believe a friend!
Post by Spike
You sir are a very lucky man...so PISS OFF.
We seem to be getting unluckier by the moment because somebody over here
apparently flunked geography really bad, and can't read a globe.

Now, you don't have to call me "sir," I was never knighted (that rumor about
me and the Queen is a dirty LIE!), but I do get lucky on a regular basis,
and I will PISS OFF somebody! Thank you!
Post by Spike
We are fighting over there so you can sit and piss and moan your
heart away, safe and sound, feet uopn the ground. selling tubes
and dynaco kits etc.
Mmmm, nope, I don't think that's why they're fighting. BTW, most of us stand
when we piss, but... you can do it anyway you want, I suppose.
Post by Spike
What a horrible awakening it would be for all these liberals
if the fight were here in our homelands.
Considering the current administration's apparent inability with a roadmap,
I wouldn't be THAT surprised. Less so all the time!
Post by Spike
Think of your neighbors, wives, husbands, kids, friends,boyfriends,
girlfirends, businesses, hospitals, schools etc as they were slaughtered
before you?
I'd rather not participate in your fantasy...
Post by Spike
How would you feel then?
Not nearly as good as you, apparently!
Post by Spike
WE ARE AT WAR *pow*
Two of them, actually! SHOULD be only one...
Post by Spike
WE ARE AT THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS *pow*
Armageddon is at hand! Satan's minions gather!
Post by Spike
RIGHT HERE *pow*
No, over there!
Post by Spike
RIGHT NOW *pow*
Amen!
Post by Spike
BEFORE OUR VERY EYES. *pow*
Right on teevee! Hallelujah!
Post by Spike
WE *pow*
Say it, brothah!
Post by Spike
NOT me, *pow*
Not you!
Post by Spike
NOT you, *pow*
Not me!
Post by Spike
WE *pow*
Weeeeeeeeeeeee-hah!
Post by Spike
SO the likes of you and yourn piss and moan all you want.
... Yourn piss...? Oh, I get it! If it ain't my'un piss, it mus' be URINE!
Hah'yuk, yuk, yuk! Piss, piss, piss! Can't get enough of that piss!
Post by Spike
GOD BLESS THE MEN, WOMEN, and OUR LEADERSHIP
BLESS 'EM, GOD, OR YOU AIN'T NO AMERICAN!
Post by Spike
For *pow*
Thankee, Jeezuz! I'm so blessed that I ain't one of those evildoers, or the
return key!
Post by Spike
KEEPING OUR UNITED STATES of AMERICA *pow*
Take that, evil return key!
Post by Spike
SAFE. *pow*
SAFE and AT WAR!
Post by Spike
Regards,
Retards,
Post by Spike
Spike
(I bet somebody give ya that name when they seen what ya was doin' to yer
return key!)

Amen! Now please pass the collection plate to your neighbor on the right as
we turn to Hymn #527 in our hymnals, "Onward Christian Soldiers"...

Zoid

Jus makin funna flamers
The Repair Guy
2004-09-25 18:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by Ned Carlson
What really pisses me off is George W Bush's smirk.
Over 1,000 Americans have died, for no good reason.
Ned,
This ain't viet-nam! They came and took our towers.
The people dive-bombing the planes weren't Iraqis.

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
Elvis Kabong
2004-09-25 23:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Repair Guy
Post by Spike
Post by Ned Carlson
What really pisses me off is George W Bush's smirk.
Over 1,000 Americans have died, for no good reason.
Ned,
This ain't viet-nam! They came and took our towers.
The people dive-bombing the planes weren't Iraqis.
The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
You can say that over and over again but it won't sink in as
long as he's got his Truth Delfecter Unit turned up along
with his Mobile Denial Generator Pack also on.

KABONG!~!~!~

The Repair Guy
2004-09-21 12:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.R.
<SNIP>
He said that extremists don't represent the mass.
It's true.
But these "extremists" are doing exactly what
Mohammed told them to do in the Qur'an. Kind
makes them not so extreme and the mass
majority of Islam kinda luke-warm if you get
my drift.
Are the majority terrorists?

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
Dave Moore
2004-09-21 08:39:25 UTC
Permalink
"Rich Koerner" <***@timeelect.com> wrote in message news:***@timeelect.com...
:
:
: >
: > zorro_2k wrote:
: >
: > > This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
: > > on their turf, or on ours.
: > >
: > > http://www.libertyunites.tv/
: > >
: > >
: > >
:
:
:
: Eric Deibler wrote:
: >
: > Calling these guys "representatives" of Islam is like calling Fred
: > Phelps and Randall Terry "reperesentatives" of Chrsitianity. I'm
: > Christian, but they sure don't represent me.
: > eric
:
:
:
: Well Eric, I've read your words of Christian condemnation.
:
: But where are those SAME words from that "religion of PEACE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:
: From either HERE, in the USA, or from the Sand Pile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:
: WHERE IS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


perhaps if you'd pull your head out of your ass long
enough to do some reading, you'd find the answer
to that question


:
:
: <thinking>
:
: WITHOUT IT, there is ONLY one thing to conclude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:
: Their Silence,.... CONDONES the KILLING and BEHEADING.
:
: That's it, End of Story, Case Closed.


You're an idiot,, case closed


regards
Dave Moore



:
:
: Regards,
:
: Rich Koerner,
: Time Electronics.
: http://www.timeelect.com
:
: Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
: Music & Studio Production,
: Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
Zorrro_2k
2004-09-21 13:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Deibler
Calling these guys "representatives" of Islam is like calling Fred
Phelps and Randall Terry "reperesentatives" of Chrsitianity. I'm
Christian, but they sure don't represent me.
eric
Sorry...it should have read 'self-proclaimed "Religion of Peace"
Representatives, although I don't hear ANY of the sanctioned
representatives
of Islam denouncing their actions.
fishhead
2004-09-21 01:02:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by zorro_2k
This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
on their turf, or on ours.
http://www.libertyunites.tv/
If Bush wins the election, one thing I would expect is
taking the gloves off in Iraq against the insurgency.

Now, I'm not saying that is 'happy', but it seems to me, we
are holding back in Iraq, for reasons associated with the
election, unfortunately.

If Bush is reelected, I believe we will at least lay siege
to Fallujah if things have not improved...perhaps offer 168
hours for citizens to get out through checkpoints, and after
that, Dresden.

Do not be thinking that this is unlikely.
Dave Moore
2004-09-21 08:45:46 UTC
Permalink
"fishhead" <***@qwerty.earthlink.net> wrote in message news:L4L3d.7936$***@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
: zorro_2k wrote:
:
: > This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
: > on their turf, or on ours.
: >
: > http://www.libertyunites.tv/
: >
: >
: >
: If Bush wins the election, one thing I would expect is
: taking the gloves off in Iraq against the insurgency.
:
: Now, I'm not saying that is 'happy', but it seems to me, we
: are holding back in Iraq, for reasons associated with the
: election, unfortunately.
:
: If Bush is reelected, I believe we will at least lay siege
: to Fallujah if things have not improved...perhaps offer 168
: hours for citizens to get out through checkpoints, and after
: that, Dresden.
:
: Do not be thinking that this is unlikely.


I don't,, that's why I'm voting Kerry


:
:
:
Zorrro_2k
2004-09-21 13:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by fishhead
Post by zorro_2k
This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
on their turf, or on ours.
http://www.libertyunites.tv/
If Bush wins the election, one thing I would expect is
taking the gloves off in Iraq against the insurgency.
Now, I'm not saying that is 'happy', but it seems to me, we
are holding back in Iraq, for reasons associated with the
election, unfortunately.
If Bush is reelected, I believe we will at least lay siege
to Fallujah if things have not improved...perhaps offer 168
hours for citizens to get out through checkpoints, and after
that, Dresden.
Do not be thinking that this is unlikely.
...that, I believe as well , is the plan.
Dave Moore
2004-09-21 08:37:10 UTC
Permalink
Nope, it isn't real.
They are not representatives of Islam anymore
than Bush is representative of Christianity.



"zorro_2k" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:gdJ3d.35669$***@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
: This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
: on their turf, or on ours.
:
: http://www.libertyunites.tv/
:
:
:
Zorrro_2k
2004-09-21 13:59:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Moore
Nope, it isn't real.
They are not representatives of Islam anymore
than Bush is representative of Christianity.
Bush does not announce his actions in the name of, and sanctioned by,
God.

However, the Muslim terrorists who commit these acts of atrocity
clearly and loudly proclaim their actions in the name of their God and
Religion, Hamdulillah, Inshallah, etc, etc. They slice off a civilia's
head in the name of Islam, in the name of Allah, and following the
precepts of the Qu'ran.

Next....
zootwoman
2004-09-21 19:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zorrro_2k
Post by Dave Moore
Nope, it isn't real.
They are not representatives of Islam anymore
than Bush is representative of Christianity.
Bush does not announce his actions in the name of, and sanctioned by,
God.
However, the Muslim terrorists who commit these acts of atrocity
clearly and loudly proclaim their actions in the name of their God and
Religion, Hamdulillah, Inshallah, etc, etc. They slice off a civilia's
head in the name of Islam, in the name of Allah, and following the
precepts of the Qu'ran.
Next....
Back up there, I believe that Mr. Bush quite plainly said that he is
directed by God and that he communicates with him on a regular basis?
The Repair Guy
2004-09-21 20:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zorrro_2k
Bush does not announce his actions in the name of,
and sanctioned by, God.
He pretty much does. He's been quoted as saying
he talks to god, and that god wanted him to do such-
and-such. To someone who doesn't share his
beliefs, he comes off as a loon.

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
Kevin Singleton
2004-09-24 18:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Repair Guy
He pretty much does. He's been quoted as saying
he talks to god, and that god wanted him to do such-
and-such. To someone who doesn't share his
beliefs, he comes off as a loon.
Sort of like when Clinton said God told him to veto the partial-birth
abortion ban?
--
Kevin
-=#=-
www.freerepublic.com
The Repair Guy
2004-09-25 18:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Singleton
Post by The Repair Guy
He pretty much does. He's been quoted as saying
he talks to god, and that god wanted him to do such-
and-such. To someone who doesn't share his
beliefs, he comes off as a loon.
Sort of like when Clinton said God told him to veto
the partial-birth abortion ban?
Assuming Clinton said that, then yes - sort of like that.

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
Dave Moore
2004-09-22 10:57:26 UTC
Permalink
"Zorrro_2k" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...
: "Dave Moore" <***@Crudspamdatasync.com> wrote in message news:<ciop87$663$***@news.datasync.com>...
: > Nope, it isn't real.
: > They are not representatives of Islam anymore
: > than Bush is representative of Christianity.
:
:
: Bush does not announce his actions in the name of, and sanctioned by,
: God.
:
: However, the Muslim terrorists who commit these acts of atrocity
: clearly and loudly proclaim their actions in the name of their God and
: Religion, Hamdulillah, Inshallah, etc, etc. They slice off a civilia's
: head in the name of Islam, in the name of Allah, and following the
: precepts of the Qu'ran.
:
: Next....


Exactly, they claim to do these things in the name of Islam,
but the vast majority of the followers of Islam don't claim them.
Which brings us right around to the original point.
They are not representatives of Islam anymore
than Bush is representative of Christianity.
Next...
Greg Pierce
2004-09-22 11:51:50 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 05:57:26 -0500, the highly esteemed Dave Moore
Post by Dave Moore
: > Nope, it isn't real.
: > They are not representatives of Islam anymore than Bush is
: > representative of Christianity.
: Bush does not announce his actions in the name of, and sanctioned by,
: God.
: However, the Muslim terrorists who commit these acts of atrocity clearly
: and loudly proclaim their actions in the name of their God and Religion,
: Hamdulillah, Inshallah, etc, etc. They slice off a civilia's head in the
: name of Islam, in the name of Allah, and following the precepts of the
: Qu'ran.
: Next....
Exactly, they claim to do these things in the name of Islam,
but the vast majority of the followers of Islam don't claim them. Which
brings us right around to the original point. They are not representatives
of Islam anymore than Bush is representative of Christianity. Next...
Bullshit. I don't see Muslims openly and loudly denouncing the beheadings.
As far as I am concerned they can eat nukes along with the perpetrators.

Your nothing but a liberal apologist who always roots for the bad guys.
Fuck Islam. And fuck you too, scooter.
--
Greg
American
M*an
2004-09-22 13:43:36 UTC
Permalink
idiot meter just went off scale ;-)
Post by Greg Pierce
Bullshit. I don't see Muslims openly and loudly denouncing the beheadings.
As far as I am concerned they can eat nukes along with the perpetrators.
Your nothing but a liberal apologist who always roots for the bad guys.
Fuck Islam. And fuck you too, scooter.
Greg Pierce
2004-09-22 22:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by M*an
idiot meter just went off scale ;-)
Well, quit walking so close to the poor thing, Mulay.

Fuckin' rocket scientist... sheesh...
--
Greg
zootwoman
2004-09-23 03:15:10 UTC
Permalink
OK so when exactly was the last time you even saw a muslim? Read an
Arabic newspaper? How in your world do you come into contact with an
Amrabic or muslim person so that you might have an opportunity to
actually have that person or people express their opinion to you?
baj2k
2004-09-24 07:22:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by zootwoman
OK so when exactly was the last time you even saw a muslim? Read an
Arabic newspaper? How in your world do you come into contact with an
Amrabic or muslim person so that you might have an opportunity to
actually have that person or people express their opinion to you?
Ok, that's a good point, so I'll pose the same questions to you...
zootwoman
2004-09-24 22:14:57 UTC
Permalink
I live in a town of under 30,000. Arabic personal aquaintances:I know
an Egyptian -3- Male
Syrian 1- female. US Kibbutzim - family of 10, and one male.(I include
them because they are semites and previously livied in the mid-east)
Turks - 2 male, Lebanese - 1 Male. Serbs/Croatian - 5 Male, I don't
actually know what their religion is so doesn't count. Jordanian - 1
male but he's a Christian. His father leads the largest Christian
congregation in Jordan. I read the English versions of several mid east
online newspapers - also Indian and Chinese.

Seems like they leave their women in the old country which is handy
when it comes time to get a green card. At least 4 of the guys married
Americans.

and you?
Zorrro_2k
2004-09-21 15:48:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Moore
Nope, it isn't real.
They are not representatives of Islam anymore
than Bush is representative of Christianity.
"The militant on the video called President Bush "a dog" and addressed
him, saying, "Now, you have people who love death just like you love
life. Killing for the sake of God is their best wish, getting to your
soldiers and allies are their happiest moments, and cutting the heads
of the criminal infidels is implementing the orders of our lord."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6015597/?GT1=5100
Boyd Williamson
2004-09-21 20:04:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zorrro_2k
Post by Dave Moore
Nope, it isn't real.
They are not representatives of Islam anymore
than Bush is representative of Christianity.
"The militant on the video called President Bush "a dog" and addressed
him, saying, "Now, you have people who love death just like you love
life. Killing for the sake of God is their best wish, getting to your
soldiers and allies are their happiest moments, and cutting the heads
of the criminal infidels is implementing the orders of our lord."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6015597/?GT1=5100
Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture. They don't see the passage
of time quite like we do, with our tendency to embrace what's "in" this
year, and dismiss what was "cool" last year. As a culture, they remember
things like the Crusades and the Jews mercilessly slaughtering their way to
the promised land like it was yesterday, and things haven't changed much for
them since.

I've never read the Koran, but I have read the Bible, and would like to call
parts of the Old Testament, namely Deuteronomy and that period of time, to
the attention of anyone who isn't aware of how the Arabs see the Jews. They
likely view our support of Israel, as being very comparable to anyone there
supporting the terrorists.

They likely look at Jesus' teachings, and see how hypocritical it was for us
to have slaughtered their people during the Crusades, just to own and
worship the ground Jesus walked on.

They see their land and culture as sacred, and disrespectful westerners as
sacrilegious infidels. And if they value human life, which they do, then
they can't ignore the fact that the Iraq war has killed ten times more of
them, innocent civilians included, than our soldiers. Videotaped beheadings
may be brutal, but it is only one innocent life at a time that they are
trying to make their point with. Dead is dead, whether by bullets, bombs, or
beheading.

I'm not trying to justify it. But I do feel that we need to understand their
point of view, rather than simply call all towelheads evil and try to
exterminate them. Believe it or not, they're people, too. It is when
individuals think their interests, or their god's, are more important than
human life on the other side, that people get killed, and wars start.

Extremists there think the world is so screwed up, that it can only be
redeemed with a "cleansing fire." Extremists here are trying to fulfill the
Bible's prophesy of Armageddon and the Last Judgment with their support of
Israel. The overwhelming majority of Americans and Moslems are considerably
more moderate than that, but where is our leadership taking us?

It should be obvious to all that religious extremism on either side is
contrary to everyone's good health and future on Planet Earth. The key is to
get them to respect our point of view, and that simply won't happen until we
respect theirs. Calling them all evil and trying to exterminate them is not
the answer; it's the problem. We will never win the peace that way.

We are so full of ourselves, we think we can win the whole world over to our
ideals and culture by turning them on to bagels, barbie dolls, barbecue, "I
Dream of Jeannie" on TV, and our so-called "democracy." We just can't seem
to fathom that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln are unknown and
irrelevant to them. Do we really have the right to bomb them if they don't
understand?

Their culture and history is predicated on the baddest-assed man around
becoming king, dictator, president, or whatever. It may be brutal at times,
but they understand that, and expect it. Everyone in Iraq knew better than
to mess with Saddam. It was simple: you mess with Saddam, you die.

Brutal as he was, he held Iraq together. You didn't see the threat of civil
war as it is now. To keep the peace in that country, he used a brutality
that we will never be able to employ. We're too civilized, and the result is
chaos for them. Saddam kept the government secular; democracy can only hand
it over to a religious majority, allied with those in Iran. Religious
extremists there will have more say now, not less.

Saddam may have been a murderous thug, but he was THEIR murderous thug,
their champion, ugly as he was, and a lot of Iraqis did not approve of a
foreign power invading and taking him out, whatever his faults. No matter
how unpopular an American president would ever become, we would not tolerate
a foreign power invading us to take him out, either.

This administration apparently expected to be cheered by the Iraqis for
their "liberation." But this wasn't like the liberation of France in WWII.
France was already occupied by a foreign power, and we freed them from that,
allowing them to determine their own government. In this instance, we're
more like the occupying Germans than the liberating Allies in WWII, and like
the Germans, are suffering perpetual resistance.

This war didn't start over religious extremism. It didn't start because Iraq
was a threat to the United States. It was started because Saddam threatened
to undercut OPEC's monopoly; everything else was an excuse, or tacked on.
But it is quickly and inexorably gravitating toward a conflict of religious
interests, and that is about the worst thing that could happen, given the
extremism on both sides.

Zoid
zootwoman
2004-09-21 20:21:21 UTC
Permalink
Amen.
drwow
2004-09-21 20:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Boyd Williamson wrote:

Snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Post by Boyd Williamson
Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture.
Compared to Jews and Christians, theirs is the youngest, and the largest.

They don't see the passage
Post by Boyd Williamson
of time quite like we do, with our tendency to embrace what's "in" this
year, and dismiss what was "cool" last year. As a culture, they remember
things like the Crusades and the Jews mercilessly slaughtering their way to
the promised land like it was yesterday, and things haven't changed much for
them since
I've never read the Koran, but I have read the Bible, and would like to call
parts of the Old Testament, namely Deuteronomy and that period of time, to
the attention of anyone who isn't aware of how the Arabs see the Jews.
Back then, they were one and the same, sons of Shem.

dw


SNIP>>>>


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
The Repair Guy
2004-09-22 04:02:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by drwow
Snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Post by Boyd Williamson
Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture.
Compared to Jews and Christians, theirs is the
youngest, and the largest.
Do a Google search on "Persia".

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
Dave Moore
2004-09-22 11:05:47 UTC
Permalink
: Boyd Williamson wrote:
:
: Snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>
: >
: > Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture.
:


"drwow" <***@mac.com> wrote

: Compared to Jews and Christians, theirs is the youngest, and the largest.


he said "culture",, not religion
drwow
2004-09-22 16:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Moore
: Snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>
: >
: > Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture.
: Compared to Jews and Christians, theirs is the youngest, and the largest.
he said "culture",, not religion
The subject makes my comments valid IMHO.

dw


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
The Repair Guy
2004-09-21 21:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boyd Williamson
Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture.
--snip--

Good post :-)

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
Elvis Kabong
2004-09-22 00:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Er, Repair Dude, I think snipping a previous post
is about as rude as top posting. Yes, I see how it's better
to see an answer following a question, but...

Most of the time when I top post it's because the post
I'm replaying to is a big lengthy post and I have only
about 2 or 3 sentences in response so I save the reader
the effort of having to scan the entire lengthy post in
order to read my reply. And I see you even made it more
convenient for the reader to get to your reply, but as you
know there's some folks who use some deceptive editing.
So to keep it legit looking, I would suggest to keep the
entire previous post intact. But in case you haven't
noticed, I do a lot of "mid" posting as well. I just
reply based on the nature of what was written and
how I want to represent my reply, but do any of these
posting styles really matter?

Zoid did have an excellent post though.
Post by The Repair Guy
Post by Boyd Williamson
Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture.
--snip--
Good post :-)
The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
The Repair Guy
2004-09-22 03:45:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elvis Kabong
Er, Repair Dude, I think snipping a previous post
is about as rude as top posting. Yes, I see how it's
better to see an answer following a question, but...
I made a one-line comment. I can't see quoting
paragraph after paragraph just to add one line.
Post by Elvis Kabong
Most of the time when I top post it's because the
post I'm replaying to is a big lengthy post and I
have only about 2 or 3 sentences in response
so I save the reader the effort of having to scan
the entire lengthy post in order to read my reply.
And I see you even made it more convenient for
the reader to get to your reply, but as you know
there's some folks who use some deceptive
editing.
True. But you can always Google the original
post, if there's any doubt.
Post by Elvis Kabong
So to keep it legit looking, I would suggest to
keep the entire previous post intact.
If there are specific points throughout the post
that I want to respond to, I generally leave all
the text. If I'm only responding to one point, I'll
snip the rest. IMO editing is only dishonest
when you don't indicate snips, or rearrange
words to distort the original post.
Post by Elvis Kabong
But in case you haven't noticed, I do a lot of
"mid" posting as well. I just reply based on the
nature of what was written and how I want to
represent my reply, but do any of these posting
styles really matter?
I really think top-posting sucks, for obvious
reasons. Nobody talks that way - answer first,
then the question. I blame Outlook Express
for starting a response at the top. It used to,
anyway.
Post by Elvis Kabong
Zoid did have an excellent post though.
The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
m_mFuxsNEG_-_
2004-09-21 21:44:38 UTC
Permalink
There is nothing you've written here that I'd disagree with Boyd.

Perhaps it's a bit more important than the amps, guitars, etc. too.

The closing however-- I think Bush gambled that he could fudge through
the bin Laden in Afghanistan = Saddam in Iraq bit, marshalling the
tremendous "strike back" need of the U.S. public into a higher throne
for himself, politically. He almost did it, given the uneducated
ignorance of vast swaths of his constituency. Iraq is now a massive
failure breeding global terrorism on a scale bin Laden could only have
dreamed of w/ the Taliban in Afghanistan. Today, the angry sons of Islam
are pouring into Iraq from all surrounding nations filled with hatred,
righteous indignation and murderous desire to humiliate the U.S. Dept.
of Defense. "When at first you try to deceive, oh, what a tangled web of
lies you weave", George.
Post by Boyd Williamson
Post by Zorrro_2k
Post by Dave Moore
Nope, it isn't real.
They are not representatives of Islam anymore
than Bush is representative of Christianity.
"The militant on the video called President Bush "a dog" and addressed
him, saying, "Now, you have people who love death just like you love
life. Killing for the sake of God is their best wish, getting to your
soldiers and allies are their happiest moments, and cutting the heads
of the criminal infidels is implementing the orders of our lord."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6015597/?GT1=5100
Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture. They don't see the passage
of time quite like we do, with our tendency to embrace what's "in" this
year, and dismiss what was "cool" last year. As a culture, they remember
things like the Crusades and the Jews mercilessly slaughtering their way to
the promised land like it was yesterday, and things haven't changed much for
them since.
I've never read the Koran, but I have read the Bible, and would like to call
parts of the Old Testament, namely Deuteronomy and that period of time, to
the attention of anyone who isn't aware of how the Arabs see the Jews. They
likely view our support of Israel, as being very comparable to anyone there
supporting the terrorists.
They likely look at Jesus' teachings, and see how hypocritical it was for us
to have slaughtered their people during the Crusades, just to own and
worship the ground Jesus walked on.
They see their land and culture as sacred, and disrespectful westerners as
sacrilegious infidels. And if they value human life, which they do, then
they can't ignore the fact that the Iraq war has killed ten times more of
them, innocent civilians included, than our soldiers. Videotaped beheadings
may be brutal, but it is only one innocent life at a time that they are
trying to make their point with. Dead is dead, whether by bullets, bombs, or
beheading.
I'm not trying to justify it. But I do feel that we need to understand their
point of view, rather than simply call all towelheads evil and try to
exterminate them. Believe it or not, they're people, too. It is when
individuals think their interests, or their god's, are more important than
human life on the other side, that people get killed, and wars start.
Extremists there think the world is so screwed up, that it can only be
redeemed with a "cleansing fire." Extremists here are trying to fulfill the
Bible's prophesy of Armageddon and the Last Judgment with their support of
Israel. The overwhelming majority of Americans and Moslems are considerably
more moderate than that, but where is our leadership taking us?
It should be obvious to all that religious extremism on either side is
contrary to everyone's good health and future on Planet Earth. The key is to
get them to respect our point of view, and that simply won't happen until we
respect theirs. Calling them all evil and trying to exterminate them is not
the answer; it's the problem. We will never win the peace that way.
We are so full of ourselves, we think we can win the whole world over to our
ideals and culture by turning them on to bagels, barbie dolls, barbecue, "I
Dream of Jeannie" on TV, and our so-called "democracy." We just can't seem
to fathom that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln are unknown and
irrelevant to them. Do we really have the right to bomb them if they don't
understand?
Their culture and history is predicated on the baddest-assed man around
becoming king, dictator, president, or whatever. It may be brutal at times,
but they understand that, and expect it. Everyone in Iraq knew better than
to mess with Saddam. It was simple: you mess with Saddam, you die.
Brutal as he was, he held Iraq together. You didn't see the threat of civil
war as it is now. To keep the peace in that country, he used a brutality
that we will never be able to employ. We're too civilized, and the result is
chaos for them. Saddam kept the government secular; democracy can only hand
it over to a religious majority, allied with those in Iran. Religious
extremists there will have more say now, not less.
Saddam may have been a murderous thug, but he was THEIR murderous thug,
their champion, ugly as he was, and a lot of Iraqis did not approve of a
foreign power invading and taking him out, whatever his faults. No matter
how unpopular an American president would ever become, we would not tolerate
a foreign power invading us to take him out, either.
This administration apparently expected to be cheered by the Iraqis for
their "liberation." But this wasn't like the liberation of France in WWII.
France was already occupied by a foreign power, and we freed them from that,
allowing them to determine their own government. In this instance, we're
more like the occupying Germans than the liberating Allies in WWII, and like
the Germans, are suffering perpetual resistance.
This war didn't start over religious extremism. It didn't start because Iraq
was a threat to the United States. It was started because Saddam threatened
to undercut OPEC's monopoly; everything else was an excuse, or tacked on.
But it is quickly and inexorably gravitating toward a conflict of religious
interests, and that is about the worst thing that could happen, given the
extremism on both sides.
Zoid
m_mFuxsNEG_-_
2004-09-21 22:00:23 UTC
Permalink
I wonder if it's possible for Bush Sr. to say to himself;

"My God he's a disgrace. I thought we could keep him in the fold.
He's going to do so much more damage off the leash up there. It's
time. We need to let him come home to Crawford. At a minimum, he's
destroyed the Bush name in U.S. political history. I've got to start
making those phone calls. All those dead boys. God, I told him, I TOLD
HIM! The blowback on this Iraq thing is going to be nuclear and for
whatever reason, he refuses to see it...forgive us"

Barbara: George it's bedtime. You're talking in your sleep. Come on
honey, get up.
The Repair Guy
2004-09-22 03:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by m_mFuxsNEG_-_
I wonder if it's possible for Bush Sr. to say to himself;
"My God he's a disgrace. I thought we could keep
him in the fold. He's going to do so much more
damage off the leash up there. It's time. We need to
let him come home to Crawford. At a minimum, he's
destroyed the Bush name in U.S. political history.
<snork> http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
The Repair Guy
2004-09-22 03:48:02 UTC
Permalink
m_mFuxsNEG_-_ <+***@cox.net> wrote:

--snip--
Post by m_mFuxsNEG_-_
for himself, politically. He almost did it, given the
uneducated ignorance of vast swaths of his
constituency.
I think "ignorance" covers it well enough.
There are well-educated people who just
don't try to stay informed in every area.

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
Dave Moore
2004-09-22 11:10:01 UTC
Permalink
"m_mFuxsNEG_-_" <+***@cox.net> wrote in message news:zn14d.339917$***@fed1read06...
: There is nothing you've written here that I'd disagree with Boyd.
:
: Perhaps it's a bit more important than the amps, guitars, etc. too.
:
: The closing however-- I think Bush gambled that he could fudge through
: the bin Laden in Afghanistan = Saddam in Iraq bit, marshalling the
: tremendous "strike back" need of the U.S. public into a higher throne
: for himself, politically. He almost did it, given the uneducated
: ignorance of vast swaths of his constituency. Iraq is now a massive
: failure breeding global terrorism on a scale bin Laden could only have
: dreamed of w/ the Taliban in Afghanistan. Today, the angry sons of Islam
: are pouring into Iraq from all surrounding nations filled with hatred,
: righteous indignation and murderous desire to humiliate the U.S. Dept.
: of Defense. "When at first you try to deceive, oh, what a tangled web of
: lies you weave", George.


This Republican guy I know has a sig he attaches to his email, reads
something like this;

"Find out who your enemy would vote for, then vote for the other guy"

I emailed him and told him, "considering how the debacle in Iraq is driving
more people to Al-Qaeda than ever before, I guess Osama would vote for
Bush.
=^^=




:
:
: Boyd Williamson wrote:
:
: >
: >>"Dave Moore" <***@Crudspamdatasync.com> wrote in message
: >>news:<ciop87$663$***@news.datasync.com>...
: >>
: >>>Nope, it isn't real.
: >>>They are not representatives of Islam anymore
: >>>than Bush is representative of Christianity.
: >>
: >>"The militant on the video called President Bush "a dog" and addressed
: >>him, saying, "Now, you have people who love death just like you love
: >>life. Killing for the sake of God is their best wish, getting to your
: >>soldiers and allies are their happiest moments, and cutting the heads
: >>of the criminal infidels is implementing the orders of our lord."
: >>
: >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6015597/?GT1=5100
: >
: >
: > Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture. They don't see the passage
: > of time quite like we do, with our tendency to embrace what's "in" this
: > year, and dismiss what was "cool" last year. As a culture, they remember
: > things like the Crusades and the Jews mercilessly slaughtering their way to
: > the promised land like it was yesterday, and things haven't changed much for
: > them since.
: >
: > I've never read the Koran, but I have read the Bible, and would like to call
: > parts of the Old Testament, namely Deuteronomy and that period of time, to
: > the attention of anyone who isn't aware of how the Arabs see the Jews. They
: > likely view our support of Israel, as being very comparable to anyone there
: > supporting the terrorists.
: >
: > They likely look at Jesus' teachings, and see how hypocritical it was for us
: > to have slaughtered their people during the Crusades, just to own and
: > worship the ground Jesus walked on.
: >
: > They see their land and culture as sacred, and disrespectful westerners as
: > sacrilegious infidels. And if they value human life, which they do, then
: > they can't ignore the fact that the Iraq war has killed ten times more of
: > them, innocent civilians included, than our soldiers. Videotaped beheadings
: > may be brutal, but it is only one innocent life at a time that they are
: > trying to make their point with. Dead is dead, whether by bullets, bombs, or
: > beheading.
: >
: > I'm not trying to justify it. But I do feel that we need to understand their
: > point of view, rather than simply call all towelheads evil and try to
: > exterminate them. Believe it or not, they're people, too. It is when
: > individuals think their interests, or their god's, are more important than
: > human life on the other side, that people get killed, and wars start.
: >
: > Extremists there think the world is so screwed up, that it can only be
: > redeemed with a "cleansing fire." Extremists here are trying to fulfill the
: > Bible's prophesy of Armageddon and the Last Judgment with their support of
: > Israel. The overwhelming majority of Americans and Moslems are considerably
: > more moderate than that, but where is our leadership taking us?
: >
: > It should be obvious to all that religious extremism on either side is
: > contrary to everyone's good health and future on Planet Earth. The key is to
: > get them to respect our point of view, and that simply won't happen until we
: > respect theirs. Calling them all evil and trying to exterminate them is not
: > the answer; it's the problem. We will never win the peace that way.
: >
: > We are so full of ourselves, we think we can win the whole world over to our
: > ideals and culture by turning them on to bagels, barbie dolls, barbecue, "I
: > Dream of Jeannie" on TV, and our so-called "democracy." We just can't seem
: > to fathom that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln are unknown and
: > irrelevant to them. Do we really have the right to bomb them if they don't
: > understand?
: >
: > Their culture and history is predicated on the baddest-assed man around
: > becoming king, dictator, president, or whatever. It may be brutal at times,
: > but they understand that, and expect it. Everyone in Iraq knew better than
: > to mess with Saddam. It was simple: you mess with Saddam, you die.
: >
: > Brutal as he was, he held Iraq together. You didn't see the threat of civil
: > war as it is now. To keep the peace in that country, he used a brutality
: > that we will never be able to employ. We're too civilized, and the result is
: > chaos for them. Saddam kept the government secular; democracy can only hand
: > it over to a religious majority, allied with those in Iran. Religious
: > extremists there will have more say now, not less.
: >
: > Saddam may have been a murderous thug, but he was THEIR murderous thug,
: > their champion, ugly as he was, and a lot of Iraqis did not approve of a
: > foreign power invading and taking him out, whatever his faults. No matter
: > how unpopular an American president would ever become, we would not tolerate
: > a foreign power invading us to take him out, either.
: >
: > This administration apparently expected to be cheered by the Iraqis for
: > their "liberation." But this wasn't like the liberation of France in WWII.
: > France was already occupied by a foreign power, and we freed them from that,
: > allowing them to determine their own government. In this instance, we're
: > more like the occupying Germans than the liberating Allies in WWII, and like
: > the Germans, are suffering perpetual resistance.
: >
: > This war didn't start over religious extremism. It didn't start because Iraq
: > was a threat to the United States. It was started because Saddam threatened
: > to undercut OPEC's monopoly; everything else was an excuse, or tacked on.
: > But it is quickly and inexorably gravitating toward a conflict of religious
: > interests, and that is about the worst thing that could happen, given the
: > extremism on both sides.
: >
: > Zoid
: >
zootwoman
2004-09-23 03:08:55 UTC
Permalink
I recal that the spanish muslims came out and actually said that.
Elvis Kabong
2004-09-22 00:01:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boyd Williamson
Post by Zorrro_2k
Post by Dave Moore
Nope, it isn't real.
They are not representatives of Islam anymore
than Bush is representative of Christianity.
"The militant on the video called President Bush "a dog" and addressed
him, saying, "Now, you have people who love death just like you love
life. Killing for the sake of God is their best wish, getting to your
soldiers and allies are their happiest moments, and cutting the heads
of the criminal infidels is implementing the orders of our lord."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6015597/?GT1=5100
Compared to ours, theirs is an ancient culture. They don't see the passage
of time quite like we do, with our tendency to embrace what's "in" this
year, and dismiss what was "cool" last year. As a culture, they remember
things like the Crusades and the Jews mercilessly slaughtering their way to
the promised land like it was yesterday, and things haven't changed much for
them since.
I've never read the Koran, but I have read the Bible, and would like to call
parts of the Old Testament, namely Deuteronomy and that period of time, to
the attention of anyone who isn't aware of how the Arabs see the Jews. They
likely view our support of Israel, as being very comparable to anyone there
supporting the terrorists.
They likely look at Jesus' teachings, and see how hypocritical it was for us
to have slaughtered their people during the Crusades, just to own and
worship the ground Jesus walked on.
They see their land and culture as sacred, and disrespectful westerners as
sacrilegious infidels. And if they value human life, which they do, then
they can't ignore the fact that the Iraq war has killed ten times more of
them, innocent civilians included, than our soldiers. Videotaped beheading
s
Post by Boyd Williamson
may be brutal, but it is only one innocent life at a time that they are
trying to make their point with. Dead is dead, whether by bullets, bombs, or
beheading.
I'm not trying to justify it. But I do feel that we need to understand their
point of view, rather than simply call all towelheads evil and try to
exterminate them. Believe it or not, they're people, too. It is when
individuals think their interests, or their god's, are more important than
human life on the other side, that people get killed, and wars start.
Extremists there think the world is so screwed up, that it can only be
redeemed with a "cleansing fire." Extremists here are trying to fulfill the
Bible's prophesy of Armageddon and the Last Judgment with their support of
Israel. The overwhelming majority of Americans and Moslems are
considerably
Post by Boyd Williamson
more moderate than that, but where is our leadership taking us?
It should be obvious to all that religious extremism on either side is
contrary to everyone's good health and future on Planet Earth. The key is to
get them to respect our point of view, and that simply won't happen until we
respect theirs. Calling them all evil and trying to exterminate them is not
the answer; it's the problem. We will never win the peace that way.
We are so full of ourselves, we think we can win the whole world over to our
ideals and culture by turning them on to bagels, barbie dolls, barbecue, "I
Dream of Jeannie" on TV, and our so-called "democracy." We just can't seem
to fathom that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln are unknown and
irrelevant to them. Do we really have the right to bomb them if they don't
understand?
Their culture and history is predicated on the baddest-assed man around
becoming king, dictator, president, or whatever. It may be brutal at times,
but they understand that, and expect it. Everyone in Iraq knew better than
to mess with Saddam. It was simple: you mess with Saddam, you die.
Brutal as he was, he held Iraq together. You didn't see the threat of civil
war as it is now. To keep the peace in that country, he used a brutality
that we will never be able to employ. We're too civilized, and the result is
chaos for them. Saddam kept the government secular; democracy can only hand
it over to a religious majority, allied with those in Iran. Religious
extremists there will have more say now, not less.
Saddam may have been a murderous thug, but he was THEIR murderous thug,
their champion, ugly as he was, and a lot of Iraqis did not approve of a
foreign power invading and taking him out, whatever his faults. No matter
how unpopular an American president would ever become, we would not tolerate
a foreign power invading us to take him out, either.
This administration apparently expected to be cheered by the Iraqis for
their "liberation." But this wasn't like the liberation of France in WWII.
France was already occupied by a foreign power, and we freed them from that,
allowing them to determine their own government. In this instance, we're
more like the occupying Germans than the liberating Allies in WWII, and like
the Germans, are suffering perpetual resistance.
This war didn't start over religious extremism. It didn't start because Iraq
was a threat to the United States. It was started because Saddam threatened
to undercut OPEC's monopoly; everything else was an excuse, or tacked on.
But it is quickly and inexorably gravitating toward a conflict of religious
interests, and that is about the worst thing that could happen, given the
extremism on both sides.
Zoid
Thank you. I couldn't agree with you more.
But too bad the people who need to read your statement,
most likely never will bother. Their agenda is more
important than making sense or facing reality.

KABONG!~!~!~

"If fascism came to America it would be on a
program of Americanism."
~Huey Long
The Repair Guy
2004-09-21 20:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zorrro_2k
"The militant on the video called President Bush "a dog"
That's being kind, IMO.

The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
zootwoman
2004-09-22 02:05:24 UTC
Permalink
yeah, that's god backwards ;)
zootwoman
2004-09-21 21:49:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by zorro_2k
This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
on their turf, or on ours.
http://www.libertyunites.tv/
http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2004/sept/video/dnB20040920a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=33:14.00

Social justice activist Naomi Klein appeared on Democracy Now
yesterday to elaborate on her recent article in Harpers Magazine
("Baghdad Year Zero: Pillaging Iraq in Pursuit of a Neocon Utopia.").
Describing the "economic front" of the war, she casts light on why so
little of the $18.4 billion in redevelopment funds have been allocated
in Iraq, and why so little reconstruction has taken place. Her
contention is that a privatization agenda effectively disenfranchises
Iraqi's from participation in their own economy. (Here's a summary and
debate on the article at Internet Infidel's.)
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-95494


The video segment is almost 26 minutes long. The part with Naomi Klein
begins 2:30 into the clip and runs eight minutes. The balance of the
clip, by the way, deals with a film that Klein and her husband, Avi
Lewis, have just finished called "The Take" about how plant workers in
Argentina reclaimed a factory that had worked in that had been shut
down in the government economic collapse.
ßikeÞainter
2004-09-21 22:55:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by zorro_2k
This is real, folks. It's going to be a long fight, and we can deal with it
on their turf, or on ours.
http://www.libertyunites.tv/
http://www.bikepainter.com/eugene-armstrong-beheading.wmv
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...